Westminster

[-bogart-]

Originally Posted by HayleyMarie

Oh, and I think the dog you might have been thinking of or saw is Firehorse Franklin aka Oak from Fire horse Cane Corso's
http://www.firehorsecanecorso.com/OurDogs/Oak.html

dies~~~ yes that was the one. he is georgous!!!!! I may just have to look more into this breed. i want a mastiff when the kids get big , b ut just can not find one i like for some reason.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Shai

Romy I think you are misreading. His point is that it's ridiculous that the breed club is fighting over colors (sable vs. not sable, sable w/ a single copy of merle) because of how hard it is to see merleing on a sable dog...thereby increasing the risk of inadvertently breeding a double-merle...when there is an obvious case of someone actually and intentionally breeding double-merle right in front of them. That the breed club should be stopping THAT, before fussing over the sable question...

But he never mentions how it's supposedly harder to identify a sable merle and the risk of accidental merle/merle breedings. I've been present at two whelpings. It's pretty obvious when they're born, and there are still signs to indicate when they're older if it isn't obvious in the coat. A sable merle that is so cryptic you can't tell at birth or as it ages would be pretty darn rare. From what I understand, it mainly happens in docked breeds because the tail is usually where it's obvious. But in most of those cases the onus is on the breeder who presumably knew before they were docked.

Anyway, in collies blue or cracked eyes is a pretty good sign that an adult sable is merle. The base sabling itself also tends to come out a really light honey color compared to normal sable littermates who are quite a bit darker at birth. If I had a breeding with the possibility of sable merles, and there was a very light sable puppy but no other indication of merle I'd still note it as merle, just in case.

ETA: and I'm just going by what he says in the article. The whole thing lambasts merle to merle (which is cool), but then goes on to make some misleading statements about sable merles, and then states at the end that crossing color lines is a heinous act because it will lead to dead fetal puppies and deformed live births. Which is patently untrue. But John Q. Public who knows very little about dog color genetics doesn't know that, so now they'll see breeders with healthy sable merles and lump them with Evil Greedy Show Breeders.

[HayleyMarie]

Originally Posted by -bogart-

dies~~~ yes that was the one. he is georgous!!!!! I may just have to look more into this breed. i want a mastiff when the kids get big , b ut just can not find one i like for some reason.

He's a VERY sexy boy. They are an amazing breed. Second runner up for the breeds I want to own. You should look more into them.

You should talk to Mary- Blackshadowcanecorso. She is on here once in a while. She is a great help.

[skittledoo]

The Ibizan Hound that won BOB in the breed judging I know in person. She is such a cuddle bug and she is the Ibizan Hound I'm still technically on a list to get a puppy from though its looking like I'm going to back out and wait longer for a beezer possibly... Not positive yet. But I was really happy for her and her owner Sarah.

On the other hand... I was pretty sickened by how many overweight dogs there were at the show.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by Romy

But he never mentions how it's supposedly harder to identify a sable merle and the risk of accidental merle/merle breedings. I've been present at two whelpings. It's pretty obvious when they're born, and there are still signs to indicate when they're older if it isn't obvious in the coat. A sable merle that is so cryptic you can't tell at birth or as it ages would be pretty darn rare. From what I understand, it mainly happens in docked breeds because the tail is usually where it's obvious. But in most of those cases the onus is on the breeder who presumably knew before they were docked.

Anyway, in collies blue or cracked eyes is a pretty good sign that an adult sable is merle. The base sabling itself also tends to come out a really light honey color compared to normal sable littermates who are quite a bit darker at birth. If I had a breeding with the possibility of sable merles, and there was a very light sable puppy but no other indication of merle I'd still note it as merle, just in case.

ETA: and I'm just going by what he says in the article. The whole thing lambasts merle to merle (which is cool), but then goes on to make some misleading statements about sable merles, and then states at the end that crossing color lines is a heinous act because it will lead to dead fetal puppies and deformed live births. Which is patently untrue. But John Q. Public who knows very little about dog color genetics doesn't know that, so now they'll see breeders with healthy sable merles and lump them with Evil Greedy Show Breeders.

Okay I think my explanation was more convoluted than the way BorderWars wrote it originally so let me try to explain again.

The whole sable thing is a CCA issue. They are debating splitting the colors. Chris is not weighing in on that discussion in this piece. Going to requote from his page since it's way up in the thread now.

Originally Posted by BorderWars

The Collie Club of America is currently plagued by chaos over the acceptance of sable-merle as an appropriate color, the President has resigned over the issue and factions are forming on each side. There are no known health issues with sable merle other than those with single merle and double merle, and yet the arguments over the ethics of crossing color lines in this case is paramount in the breed and little to no attention is being paid to the horrible ethical consequences of allowing breeders to create infertility, dead fetal puppies, and blind and deaf Collies simply to get a few more merle dogs each litter.

Collie breed clubs and Kennel Clubs around the world have rightfully banned the breeding of merle to merle to prevent the creation of crippled dogs like Avalanche. In the rest of the world, it’s unethical, at Westminster it’s Best of Breed.

So what he's saying is that the CCA is all tied up in knots over the sable issue even though there IS no sable issue because the only known color health issue is the whole merle thing...which is the same (as you said) regardless of base coat color. "Yet" while the CCA is all up in arms over the sable issue, there are breeder creating double merles (the dead, infertility, blind, deaf Collies) simply so they can use them to create all merle litters.

Further that other clubs around the world have recognized that merle X merle is the key issue here and have banned it, while CCA allows itself to be distracted with health-irrelevant color issues and Westminster rewards the people doing/supporting the breeding of double merles with a BOB.

[kady05]

I've been watching.. was so happy to see Maddy take the breed for the Amstaffs again! She's such a beautiful girl..

[sillysally]

Have they done the sporting group? If so, any word on how the lab looked?

[kady05]

Originally Posted by sillysally

Have they done the sporting group? If so, any word on how the lab looked?

Here you go:

GCH Clearcreek Bonaventure Windjammer

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org...R39094901.html

And these are all the results: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org.../labdoret.html

[AdrianneIsabel]

Originally Posted by kady05

Here you go:

GCH Clearcreek Bonaventure Windjammer

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org...R39094901.html

And these are all the results: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org.../labdoret.html

from that photo, on my phone, I would never have guessed "purebred lab". Go figure.

[HayleyMarie]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

from that photo, on my phone, I would never have guessed "purebred lab". Go figure.

All I can say is, YESH!

Looks fat to me.