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  #61  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:40 AM
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To each his own, but IMO that is not parenting, it is retaliation. Who is the adult here?

Clearly the child needs to learn a lesson about responsibility and privileges, but do the dad***8217;s actions teach that? Our kids learn from our actions much more than our words. This dad***8217;s actions are saying that if you***8217;re angry its okay to retaliate, use violence (a deadly weapon no less), and get even. That***8217;s no lesson I want any child of mine learning.

Instead I would like to see this child learn that with increased responsibility come increased freedoms, and privileges. That there are rewards for sensible behavior and that there is joy and satisfaction in a job well done.

And before anyone tells me I haven***8217;t met any ***8220;awful***8221; teenagers, let me clarify that I have been teaching teens since 1993, spent 6 years teaching at a home for wards of the state who had suffered unspeakable abuse and neglect and abandonment, and currently teach at a public high school with over 75% of our population living in poverty.

Not gonna lie, parenting is no cake walk and no parent is perfect or hasn***8217;t made mistakes. I think its clear that this dad loves his daughter and cares deeply about what kind of adult she becomes.
You can***8217;t judge an entire father/daughter relationship on one 5 minute youtube clip, for sure. But just speaking to this one incident, I don***8217;t agree with how this dad handled it.
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  #62  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:43 AM
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Mulling is an excellent word. Parents need to do it a lot when they are hurt and disappointed before they ever open their mouth. Bullets seriously? She probably rolled her eyes and thought a couple more years and I am so done with this.
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  #63  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:43 AM
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I haven't read all of the posts but this is my two scents to the video.

Dad...wait a few days until your not so angry, and choose your words carefully. 15 and a girl are pia. You are asking her to control and discipline herself while you are barely holding your temper verbally and showing violence as the answer. You could have donated the laptop to any charitable organization and set a better example then your hollow point bullets..that she has to pay you back for.

Teenage girls will break your heart coming and going, and they are not adults and do not see the world as an adult. Teen boys have their own flavor or bad decisions and self actions..it's a part of you you signed on for. As my son told me many times "I am not you" and he was right so stop comparing her life to yours.. You might have gotten further without the bullets, if while you chose your words you remembered the past, and held your breath for the future. This stage too will not last forever but your words and way of dealing with things will set a pattern. I thought the video was the kind of thing he should have done to have gotten it off his chest, and then he should have deleted it. After that he should have removed the laptop, and made whatever home changes necessary. He was embarrassed by her actions, and he fought back by trying to embarrass her. What he did, was embarrass them both. That is not good parenting.
Agree.
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  #64  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
To each his own, but IMO that is not parenting, it is retaliation. Who is the adult here?

Clearly the child needs to learn a lesson about responsibility and privileges, but do the dadís actions teach that? Our kids learn from our actions much more than our words. This dadís actions are saying that if youíre angry its okay to retaliate, use violence (a deadly weapon no less), and get even. Thatís no lesson I want any child of mine learning.

Instead I would like to see this child learn that with increased responsibility come increased freedoms, and privileges. That there are rewards for sensible behavior and that there is joy and satisfaction in a job well done.

And before anyone tells me I havenít met any ďawfulĒ teenagers, let me clarify that I have been teaching teens since 1993, spent 6 years teaching at a home for wards of the state who had suffered unspeakable abuse and neglect and abandonment, and currently teach at a public high school with over 75% of our population living in poverty.

Not gonna lie, parenting is no cake walk and no parent is perfect or hasnít made mistakes. I think its clear that this dad loves his daughter and cares deeply about what kind of adult she becomes.
You canít judge an entire father/daughter relationship on one 5 minute youtube clip, for sure. But just speaking to this one incident, I donít agree with how this dad handled it.
Well put. I totally agree with all your points.
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  #65  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kady05 View Post
I don't necessarily agree. My older brother (middle child) was a drug addict, addicted to cocaine for years. My oldest brother & I were raised exactly the same as he was, and never touched drugs (I don't even drink!).

Didn't really have anything to do with what my parents "put in", had to do with that my brother was a rebellious teenager (and into his 20's as well) who became addicted to a drug and didn't want to stop til he was good and ready. We were most certainly not badly brought up, had a great, stable home life and all that jazz.
I agree with you. People seem to be forgetting that teenagers are resilant. What was drama and the end of their world five minutes ago in many cases is now yesterdays news. Plus i have seen many cases where awsome teens became awsome adults though they came from unimaginable abuse growing up. And i have seen some nasty teens grow up to be nasty adults yet their parents followed all the text book accepted disaplines and so on. To me i saw a dad who had tried other more accepted means of disapline with no results. This was not a diary that was for her eyes only that she posted that about on. She sent it to over 400 people. Himiliating her parents to that many people and then who knows who it was passed on to is not ok. Since other disaplines did not work a taste of her own medicine was definately needed. And i would rather see her learn this lesson from an obviously loving, involved father then from a slander lawsuit from someone else she could post nasty stuff about in the future. As for shooting it, it was his to do with as he please.
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  #66  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:08 AM
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I do and don't understand the "well he could have given it to charity" sentiment. It's a nice thought, but it's hardly an obligation and I don't think it would teach any more of a lesson than destroying it. Either way, the girl doesn't have her laptop anymore.

I mean, he could have given the money to charity instead of buying a laptop at all. Or I could have given the money I spent on the movies last weekend to charity. Or people could quit smoking and give their cigarette money to charity. Nobody's pointing fingers around here saying "oh you could have given that collar money to charity", why care what one guy you don't even know does with his own property?
I think you missed the point.

To me the take home message was destroying things is a good way to teach people you (are supposed to) love a lesson. Now think if she grows up and marries a somewhat abusive guy who is the main bread winner. So he can destroy stuff that he bought to control her... YAY?

If I buy something for my child its his. Now I do think in extreme circumstances (and to me this isn't it...) I can take it away. But what does me taking it away permanently teach my child, other than I can be a bitch? I think the method of taking it away IS significant.

So you shoot it and show that destroying something valuable is a great way to get your point across.

Or you donate it and send home the message that while you can't be responsible we will give this valuable item to someone who will use it responsibly. It shows the value of looking after things, its not pro 'disposable items (I don't care if you bought it, just ruining things for the sake of ruining them is NOT a responsible thing to do.. reuse, reduce recycle etc), it highlights responsibility to others (which is what he was trying to say) I just think destroying it was a dumb move that will teach a lot of the wrong things to a kid.

He acted IMO every bit as rudely and entitledly as she did. Even though this is just a snap shot of their lives it makes me wonder if she has come by it honestly. I just don't see any respect for her from him.
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  #67  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NicoleLJ View Post
Himiliating her parents to that many people and then who knows who it was passed on to is not ok. Since other disaplines did not work a taste of her own medicine was definately needed.
Eh... humiliation is part of parenting Thatís why its generally a realm reserved for adults who donít feel the need to play tit for tat games over a bratty rant.

The ďtaste of your own medicineĒ argument has never made sense to me. I just donít get it as a teaching tool, though I wonít deny its fun to use as a retaliation tool.
But seriously, how does it *teach* a child not to do something by doing the same thing right back to them? I donít get that. Wouldnít it make sense to lead by example? To show the child through your actions a more mature and appropriate way to handle yourself when angry and feeling wronged?

I mean, thatís essentially what this whole thing boils down to. Rightly or wrongly the child feels wronged by her parents, rightly or wrongly the dad feels wronged by his daughter. When one acts on it its disrespectful, when the other acts on it heís a hero parent. I donít get it.
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  #68  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:24 AM
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it's all so easy from the outside looking in
I love this statement.
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  #69  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Danefied View Post
I mean, thatís essentially what this whole thing boils down to. Rightly or wrongly the child feels wronged by her parents, rightly or wrongly the dad feels wronged by his daughter. When one acts on it its disrespectful, when the other acts on it heís a hero parent. I donít get it.
Thats another point. This might stop the behaviour but it isn't going to teach respect. It might teach fear, and inspire the child to learn to be more devious as she obviously can't trust her father to have deal with her in a reasonable way. I was a difficult (though not greatly so) teen. If this happened to me I would likely stop all dialogue with my father and ensure there was no way for him to over hear me talking to my friends, read my diary etc. It wouldn't teach me to go to him when I was feeling upset, or teach me how to deal with how I was feeling... just that he was NOT the one to talk too.

Which would be very sad. So many teens feel the need to talk to someone, all the parenting books and experts say we (as parents) need to have an open dialogue with our kids so they can feel safe coming to us with problems. This daughter is NOT going to be coming to her dad with her problems now is she? He has shown he cannot be trusted to be rational or behave like a responsible adult. He is no longer a good role model either.
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  #70  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:43 AM
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yes and that all goes back to PARENTING DOESN'T COME WITH A MANUAL.

It's so easy to sit here and say what the parents should have done when you aren't the one parenting.

Sometimes you do what you think is right and it turns out it wasn't and by then you've lost all control. It doesn't make you a bad person and it certainly doesn't mean you should then be subjected to abuse at the hands of your child (not saying that's what this father is enduring)

I remember my neice being three years old and going after her brother with a real golf club and it was not the typical brother/sister fight. she would have beaten him with that club. i know it, I'd seen her go after her brother before (older brother). She did see a child psychologist for a while but that didnt' help. The whole "let her know how loved she is, sit down and talk with her, explain why what she is doing is not ok"... that didn't do anything other than teach her how to manipulate her parents and everyone else. Manipulation is one of her strengths.

by the time she was 10 she was calling childrens aid on her parents whenever they tried to punish her (no they did not hit her or anything like that) but she knew if she called the childrens aid hotline or the police... they would always come out and investigate. (that's actually snowballed to a point now that the last time she called the police they arrested her for wasting their time basically lol... she is over 18 now so at least her actions only affect her now)

and now... she has a baby of her own :O She needs help but she doesn't want it. she's gotten it, they gave her meds, she won't take them.

So I just wonder how as a parent, doing this on the fly... how are you supposed to handle that and know you are doing just right? especially when some of what they tried came from "professionals".

There isn't a manual. parenting isn't clear cut and dry. Kids are very smart and many of them know how to work their parents just right. They are smart... but they aren't always reasonable. Teens aren't always up for a parent trying to "reason" with them.

I h ope I am doing the best I can with Hannah but I won't really know until down the road. They don't really hand out parenting progress reports. you kind of just gotta go with your heart. I will always try to be the best parent I can... even when it's hard but the truth of the matter is... I'm going to make mistakes. We all do. Our parents made mistakes but yet most of us turned out OK lol. I'm sure this girl (from the video) will too
I agree with Fran's post on Page 4.

Other than that, I think YOU are a great mom, Tanya. And Hannah is dang lucky to have parents like you and Bryan. <3
And gah yall made a gorgeous baby lol
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