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  #171  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:56 AM
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Aleron Aleron is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
http://youtu.be/ayfvvN_Uqkg

Notice his wide birth around that dropped pole? Yet he'll plow into poles on the jumps. :/ He's jumping 12s because I haven't addressed his jumping style yet. I started him in flyball as a pup and I think I compounded some natural issues. He jumps super flat and low, he also has no regard for his body which doesn't help at all.

Watched the video and TBH I was expecting a way more frantic, weird dog from what you have described LOL I have seen BCs who could not do any of what Backup is doing here because they were grabbing their handlers pant legs in a frenzy whenever the handler got too close, moved to fast...or too slow. I know BCs who are so worked up in agility they scream (and often knock bars) the entire run, take whatever obstacle is in their vision and are in general fairly out of control. Ziggy was sort of difficult to run to to start off because of his frantic nature and to some degree he always will be.

I have a few ideas that might work with Backup, maybe some food for thought. A lot of people pick their dogs weakest issue and work the most on that in attempts to fix it. But to the dog, working on the stuff they are the least good at the most can't be very much fun and is probably stressful. We don't know why Backup is weird about your right side but he is. Since you do obedience and IPO with him, it may have something to do with that. I have seen many obedience dogs of all breeds and temperaments get extremely weird about being worked on the right. At any rate, he is weird about it. So in agility practice, since he's still a beginner instead of focusing on that why not just make any right sided stuff super easy for him? Over time, you can gradually start making it harder and harder until you're asking the same from him right sided as left sided. Away from agility, maybe try teaching him to heel on your right side and seeing if that helps at all.

The distance stuff...that's not a glitch, it's a feature Really, a lot of people spend a great deal of time trying to get their dog to work away from them. Your's is naturally good at it, so use it whenever you can! Like Panzerotti said, it's a common issue with BCs. Many herding breeds can be that way to some degree because what they were designed to do required they be sensitive to pressure and space, both concerning sheep and the shepherd.

Mostly what I see in this video is a dog who's trying hard and willing to play the game but doesn't fully understand. I think he'd benefit from trying to run less complicated set ups where it's very easy for him to follow your cues and make the right choices without having to be micromanaged.
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  #172  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:58 AM
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Have you checked out Silvia Trkman's Speed and Conditioning DVD? http://www.lolabuland.com/training-v...dconditioning/

I haven't seen it but others here love it, and I really like her training and attitude towards agility. She also has a lot of free articles and information on her website.
Definitely suggest this DVD for anyone having speed issues with their dog. And really, for anyone who wants their dog to be all they can be even if they are already fast enough

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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post

And just for funsies, here are two short clips of Frodo at our "come and train what you want" class when someone left agility equipment up

http://www.flickr.com/photos/izfro/5724195557/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/izfro/5724196643/

I can't seem to find the one where Ryan nearly steered him into a pole

Look at him go!!! He looks like he loves it
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  #173  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:14 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Backup looks AWESOME!!! I too was imagining a much more frantic dog. There is a mal we train with who has been in agility for as long as Classic (they started together) and he can't even sequence 3 jumps yet without spazzing out. You guys are going to be a great team.
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  #174  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:22 AM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
Watched the video and TBH I was expecting a way more frantic, weird dog from what you have described LOL
We've worked a lot to get there and I am super proud of where he is compared to how he was.

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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
I have seen BCs who could not do any of what Backup is doing here because they were grabbing their handlers pant legs in a frenzy whenever the handler got too close, moved to fast...or too slow.
LOL He wouldn't dare... that is Sloans style, run up and bite me or bounce/do a wall turn off me if I'm too slow or confusing. That, I can work with.

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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
I know BCs who are so worked up in agility they scream (and often knock bars) the entire run, take whatever obstacle is in their vision and are in general fairly out of control. Ziggy was sort of difficult to run to to start off because of his frantic nature and to some degree he always will be.
He started barking in the last run, and spinning, which at least told me he was thinking enough to be frustrated, maybe I am taking that wrong though. I did however put him in a down stay outside of the ring to bring him back down. If I run him with a toy of any sort he'll behave that way. I had to remove the use of targets (lids) because he can make those into toys as well, if we need a target in the future we'll try an actual dinner plate to deter picking it up. Again though, I am really happy with this run. To be honest I started walking the course like I would with Sloan and had to think, no... stop, this is for him but he really impressed me. He's starting to click... that or tomorrow I'll swear again he's a moron and I want to die. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
I have a few ideas that might work with Backup, maybe some food for thought. A lot of people pick their dogs weakest issue and work the most on that in attempts to fix it. But to the dog, working on the stuff they are the least good at the most can't be very much fun and is probably stressful. We don't know why Backup is weird about your right side but he is. Since you do obedience and IPO with him, it may have something to do with that. I have seen many obedience dogs of all breeds and temperaments get extremely weird about being worked on the right.
Yeah, I'm sure why but I venture it's the obed that either hurts the right OR laid foundation for being used to being on my left, basically meaning I'm not sure he even likes to be on my left but he tolerates it because he's been doing it with me since 8 months old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
At any rate, he is weird about it. So in agility practice, since he's still a beginner instead of focusing on that why not just make any right sided stuff super easy for him? Over time, you can gradually start making it harder and harder until you're asking the same from him right sided as left sided. Away from agility, maybe try teaching him to heel on your right side and seeing if that helps at all.
I'll do that. It's funny, I feel so clumsy, after years of obed, trying to train a dog to heel on my right. I finally got Sloan in but for her it was me totally, she had minimal trouble and I had motor skills izzues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
The distance stuff...that's not a glitch, it's a feature Really, a lot of people spend a great deal of time trying to get their dog to work away from them. Your's is naturally good at it, so use it whenever you can! Like Panzerotti said, it's a common issue with BCs. Many herding breeds can be that way to some degree because what they were designed to do required they be sensitive to pressure and space, both concerning sheep and the shepherd.

Mostly what I see in this video is a dog who's trying hard and willing to play the game but doesn't fully understand. I think he'd benefit from trying to run less complicated set ups where it's very easy for him to follow your cues and make the right choices without having to be micromanaged.
Thank you very much for the advice and compliments. We'll definitely take him back to more simplistic stuff. I am usually just asking for 1, 2, 3 obstacles with minimal turns (mostly just pulling him back into me since he naturally goes wide circles the whole ring).

I'm spending most of my time trying to figure out his weaves these days. If we can champion those then we'll address the fact his Aframe isn't very nice. He hits the aframe up like he's going to do a wall turn (which he'll sometimes offer) and then flies off the down. He will offer a 2o2o if he's going slowly but with any speed we lose it, plus because he's long in the loin I'm not sure I want his 2o2o on the aframe. So we have been trying using a stride regulator or loose hoop to pop him over the top and a board (obed broad jump segment) at the floor 3 feet out which he avoids with a mission but it doesn't seem to be curing things just yet.

His dogwalk and teeter are relatively controlled and he offers a 2o2o. I know I can speed him up later but I have had to pull some of the dreaded slowing him down for safety or at least my own mind of safety. Sometimes he'll get moving so quickly he'll stumble and I caught him in my arms literally 5 feet out from the full height dog walk yesterday when Denis tried to run him over it. I'm not sure how he managed it but he did, talented clutz.

This isn't the best, or even okay, handling but I wanted a video.

He normally finds his 2o2o much faster and with more confidence (for some reason that is usually something that clicks nicely for him) but I think I was weirding him out holding my phone and not moving with him.

http://youtu.be/ZU6ycUORVRk
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  #175  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:23 AM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Fro-yo is going to be awesome at agility!! I will gladly block ring entrances
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  #176  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:11 AM
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Shai Shai is offline
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
This was Backup tonight on his last run. The first two were a total mess and I apologized profusely for wasting her time. LOL He was avoiding jumps, blowing off, doing whatever. I think he had to pee something fierce but I don't know that it's an excuse. Either way, he started to settle in and we made some progress. He's listening a bit better these days and tonight I actually had some fun with him.

http://youtu.be/ayfvvN_Uqkg

Notice his wide birth around that dropped pole? Yet he'll plow into poles on the jumps. :/ He's jumping 12s because I haven't addressed his jumping style yet. I started him in flyball as a pup and I think I compounded some natural issues. He jumps super flat and low, he also has no regard for his body which doesn't help at all.
Honestly at least from this vid he reminds me a lot of Kim about two years. Complete with being a bit weird about space and suddenly deciding strange stuff is To Be Avoided when a second ago it was no biggie, but in general trying hard to figure out what the heck I wanted, and disconnecting a bit when confused. If he really is like Kim then a lot of the zoomy spastic stuff you've been having happen (not in this vid of course) is also related primarily to just not understanding.
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  #177  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
He started barking in the last run, and spinning, which at least told me he was thinking enough to be frustrated, maybe I am taking that wrong though.

He normally finds his 2o2o much faster and with more confidence (for some reason that is usually something that clicks nicely for him) but I think I was weirding him out holding my phone and not moving with him.

http://youtu.be/ZU6ycUORVRk
He looks really great and like he does want to be a good boy. Aleron's advice is awesome, as usual, and I think he'll do very well if you go back to the basics and bring him along slowly.

The barking and spinning, as you mention, might signify frustration, I'd reward more often (hence the short sequences) so that he really knows when he's right and doesn't get the chance to enter the frustrated frantic state of mind.
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  #178  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:25 AM
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We're finally moving into more handling training, starting the fun stuff! Here are 2 short vids of her first front cross sessions. The 2nd vid is at 22" jumps and I'm really liking how she's bending and judging distance this early in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5lm2OKj5t8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvs3M6bzz6s

I've also started RC from scratch and am going to get a super thin board this weekend....I've had her running a carpet for the past few sessions.

I'm also building a teeter this weekend (yay) and am looking into the best site to order 2x2s from. I'm thinking here http://www.waytoweave.com/2x2_weave_...bases_s/35.htm.
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  #179  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:30 AM
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Looks like you guys are having fun, Panzerotti
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  #180  
Old 04-13-2012, 10:29 AM
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Looks like you guys are having fun, Panzerotti
Thanks, we really are! I think she's going to turn out half-decent. I'm happy with the speed she's offering while learning and I'm assuming it'll increase once she "gets" everything. I'm also relearning handling as we go... it's been years since I've done agility with Solo.
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