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  #1571  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:19 PM
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I guess I just don't really understand what makes it different from other obstacles. I know I'm approaching the topic as someone who has never had table issues with a dog (want to talk about taking out the teeter, you come find me ), so I'm genuinely looking for answers.

For example, similar to your post Ado, I have a friend who ran a dog who Could Not hit contacts in the ring. This is one of the trainers I know who I am most impressed with. Incredibly hard worker, fantastic timing, cheerfully drove 3 hours each way to weekly lessons so she could work with a top trainer, etc. The dog with the issues could and did regularly win steeplechase classes despite being called on 2 contacts, because the rest of her run was so outstanding she could still be 10 seconds faster. Her other dog made it to the Steeplechase finals at Cynosport. She went to every trainer (other than the one who said "leave your dog with me for the weekend and I will fix her contacts" but wouldn't say how and wouldn't let her be there), seminars, ran in NADAC where you can train in the ring, ran Gamblers where she could 'school' the contacts...nothing fixed them. It was practically heartbreaking to watch.

So where is the difference (or is there not)? Should contacts not be called because some dogs simply can not perform them in a trial setting? Perhaps change it to a "dog performed the obstacle safely" call, but not require hitting the yellow? I think that is probably the other obstacle I'd consider similar to some of the table issues I've heard/seen. Some people, no matter how hard they work, simply can't get them in a trial.

I apologize for phrasing my thoughts the way I did; I have a lot of respect for many of the people in this thread and the work they've done with their dogs. I absolutely get the "sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, it isn't going to happen" thing; what I don't understand is why the table is different from other obstacles in regards to that argument. Enlighten me!
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  #1572  
Old 07-26-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
I guess I just don't really understand what makes it different from other obstacles. I know I'm approaching the topic as someone who has never had table issues with a dog (want to talk about taking out the teeter, you come find me ), so I'm genuinely looking for answers.

For example, similar to your post Ado, I have a friend who ran a dog who Could Not hit contacts in the ring. This is one of the trainers I know who I am most impressed with. Incredibly hard worker, fantastic timing, cheerfully drove 3 hours each way to weekly lessons so she could work with a top trainer, etc. The dog with the issues could and did regularly win steeplechase classes despite being called on 2 contacts, because the rest of her run was so outstanding she could still be 10 seconds faster. Her other dog made it to the Steeplechase finals at Cynosport. She went to every trainer (other than the one who said "leave your dog with me for the weekend and I will fix her contacts" but wouldn't say how and wouldn't let her be there), seminars, ran in NADAC where you can train in the ring, ran Gamblers where she could 'school' the contacts...nothing fixed them. It was practically heartbreaking to watch.

So where is the difference (or is there not)? Should contacts not be called because some dogs simply can not perform them in a trial setting? Perhaps change it to a "dog performed the obstacle safely" call, but not require hitting the yellow? I think that is probably the other obstacle I'd consider similar to some of the table issues I've heard/seen. Some people, no matter how hard they work, simply can't get them in a trial.

I apologize for phrasing my thoughts the way I did; I have a lot of respect for many of the people in this thread and the work they've done with their dogs. I absolutely get the "sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, it isn't going to happen" thing; what I don't understand is why the table is different from other obstacles in regards to that argument. Enlighten me!
I didn't ask nor expect the table to be removed in my case. I changed my game plan. In some cases I expect folks just stop trialing. I liked the idea of it being judges choice as to whether they wanted a sit, down or stand on the table. At least it gave someone with a table issue a chance of at least earning a q when a down wasn't required. But that isn't what they went with, I don't know the reason why and I am interested as to what the reasons are.
I saw one comment from a judge that was happy to see the change in the table rule. Because of so many thin skinned and/or deep chested dogs struggle and are clearly uncomfortable to do the table.
I don't think it compares to contacts. Contact zones are first and foremost there for safety. Again if you have a dog that can't or wont perform contact equipment, you either change you plan, keep training or quit. And it would be an unrealistic expectation that something as vital as the CE be removed.
Have they removed jumps in agility because of all the problems with the jumps and dogs getting hurt? No but the rules as to what is an acceptable jump is being changed in a lot of Associations or will be.

Nobody minded when rule changes included breakaway tires but now there is concern that some dogs are just blasting through tires and the performance is yet again for some dangerous. Will there be continued changes with the tire to make it safer for the dogs? Over the pond the tire is a fixed tire but the jump height of the tire is lower for safety reasons, will that happen here as well?

I also have a teeter problem with Who after she got catapulted off of one when another dog stepped on the end during an open practice. It never occurred to me, to even suggest that the teeter be modified or removed because of her problem with it. That is my problem to either fix, keep trying to fix it, limit her trialing because of it or quit.
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  #1573  
Old 07-27-2013, 04:33 AM
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Fair enough. There is a difference between 'happy it is gone' and 'expected it gone' I guess. Time is the reason I have heard given for removing it/making it positionless. Everyone gets to go home earlier when you don't spend extra time waiting for dogs to lie down.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
Time is the reason I have heard given for removing it/making it positionless. Everyone gets to go home earlier when you don't spend extra time waiting for dogs to lie down.
Consistency too. I have a couple friends who are judges who said it was always tougher on the short-coated dogs, especially ones build such that, say, when they sat their butt didn't actually touch the table though their hocks were fully down, so the judge had to look twice before starting the count vs. a long-coated dog who could get away with being almost-down or almost sitting because there was just no way to tell under all the floof.

Yeah, some judges were better than others at it but four-paws-on is about as clear a criteria as possible and they feel it's easier to be consistent between dogs.
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  #1575  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:19 PM
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I never had a problem with Remmy downing on the table until one trial when I had him clipped right down. He was down the way he always had but the judge said he was not right down. He could not have been any farther down and because I kept trying to make him, he eventually jumped off the table. At least I do not have to worry about that now he is in Masters so no table.

I will probably be glad of the change when I start with Kris, the Doberman and I know my sister's Rat Terrier never looks like she is right down when she is so it will help her. I have worked so hard on Lucy to have her go down I will probably still have her down on the Table as right now she automatically goes down as soon as she hits the table.

Our trials are mostly outdoors so in the heat or the rain it effects some dogs whether or not they will lie down.
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  #1576  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:42 AM
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Pay and Auggie got into the August trial after all.
Yikes.
Better teach that puppy some contacts!!
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  #1577  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:58 AM
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I have my new agility class tonight! I've been told that I am probably ahead of the rest but they will add some stuff to my sequences to make it more difficult. I'm just glad I got in a class!
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  #1578  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:02 AM
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Also I want another trial already. Lol.
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  #1579  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:33 AM
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We leave for nationals on Thursday.

I'm so excited and nervous at the same time. Today is my last day of work so I have 2 days off to over think absolutely everything lol!
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  #1580  
Old 07-29-2013, 02:02 PM
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Diesel and I start weaving classes tomorrow night!
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