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  #11  
Old 02-01-2012, 12:21 PM
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yoko yoko is offline
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I'll be the odd one out. I don't really feel sorry for him.

Did he even put the dogs on a leash after being told it's not an off leash area any more? Doesn't say he did.

But when someone like police officer or a park ranger tells you to do something you do it. You don't give fake information and you don't walk off after they have told you to stay there. And I'm sorry when you DARE them to arrest you yeah imo you deserve to be tased for being a difficult, lying prick.
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2012, 12:29 PM
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You're not that odd, I don't really feel sorry for him either. I think it was a bit excessive considering the initial "offense", but sometimes in life you get what you're asking for.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
You're not that odd, I don't really feel sorry for him either. I think it was a bit excessive considering the initial "offense", but sometimes in life you get what you're asking for.
I don't even remotely feel sorry for him. Assuming the story is accurate, he's a prick, at minimum, and his conduct towards the ranger was not acceptable. The issue is what circumstances justify hitting someone with a taser (which can be deadly, on rare occasion), not whether this guy was in the right.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilavati View Post
I don't even remotely feel sorry for him. Assuming the story is accurate, he's a prick, at minimum, and his conduct towards the ranger was not acceptable. The issue is what circumstances justify hitting someone with a taser (which can be deadly, on rare occasion), not whether this guy was in the right.
Exactly. He should have had hand cuffs put on him. If there had been men rangers instead of a woman (I hate to have to say it but they are stronger) that probably could have been done. Using a very potentially deadly weapon for something as minor as this is uncivilized....barbaric and excessive imo. I'm surprised and relieved that the dogs weren't shot.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:05 AM
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I guess my question would be..what would have happened before tasers? That should still be the standard in these situation.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:11 AM
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really? wrestling someone to the ground can be deadly as well ( on rare occasions) could have ended deadly for her as well. Gun could go off, gun could get stolen and turned on her.

When it all could have been avoided by someone taking ownership of screwing up. If you're unleashed in a leash only area and get stopped, pay your **** ticket and move on.

I think once we're past the unleashed dogs, he was tased for a much more egregious offense of resisting a lawful stop.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2012, 09:22 AM
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The two reports sound like totally different cases!

In the first one, witnesses say that he asked the ranger why he was being detained and she wouldn't say.

In the second one, and argument broke out, and witness say the man dared the ranger to arrest him.

Can a taser be fatal for someone with that thing that sends out electrical pulses to keep your heart working? I tried to google the name of it, but even google couldn't figure out what I was thinking of.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoko View Post
I'll be the odd one out. I don't really feel sorry for him.

Did he even put the dogs on a leash after being told it's not an off leash area any more? Doesn't say he did.

But when someone like police officer or a park ranger tells you to do something you do it. You don't give fake information and you don't walk off after they have told you to stay there. And I'm sorry when you DARE them to arrest you yeah imo you deserve to be tased for being a difficult, lying prick.
I agree with this. He asked for it.
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2012, 09:38 AM
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If the guy were being arrested, then he should be told why. 2nd: if he resists arrest and doesn't succumb to having hand cuffs put on, starts fighting or whatever, then and only then should the force of a taser be used. I agree that he broke the law, but it is still a minor offense and something this painful and risky should have been used as a last resort. He was a jerk, was thumbing his nose at authority and lied. But he wasn't a danger to anyone by letting his dogs off leash. He wasn't robbing a bank or threatening to kill anyone. I just don't think this "crime" is worth messing with someone's heart rhythms.
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
I think once we're past the unleashed dogs, he was tased for a much more egregious offense of resisting a lawful stop.
That's the real issue, and reason I haven't decided whether I'm outraged or not. He wasn't tased because of the dogs . . .he was tased for openly blowing off the ranger, who (assuming she told him why he was being detained, etc) had the right to stop him and give him a ticket and arrest him if he didn't cooperate. The problem is that tasers are meant to be a less-lethal substitute for a gun, and I think we all agree that shooting him would have been way excessive. (and yes, tasers can kill you if you have a pacemaker, as well as under other circumstances.)

But assuming she was smaller than he was (probably a safe assumption) she couldn't arrest him if he resisted, safely, without using the taser, and he'd already shown himself to be uncooperative. Just trying to handcuff him, or go after him with a baton would have been pretty dangerous.

And as much as I think "contempt of cop" is not and should not be a crime, blowing off a LEO who has given a lawful order, when you are in fact breaking the law, is the sort of thing that does need to have consequences. Otherwise, the enforcement of laws against minor crimes would pretty much become impossible, as people blow off the cops knowing nothing will happen to them.

The more I read about this the more I think the correct response would have been to call for back up. Of course, that assumes that a park ranger really has back up . . .

Edit: Dober, the problem I see with trying to arrest him first and tasing him if he resists, is that I imagine that he may well (and we don't know) have been substantially bigger than she. We don't know exactly what happened, which made it hard to judge, but I can understand that if he was larger and seemed like he might be aggressive, why she wouldn't want to (and probably shouldn't) get into physical contact with him.

Part of the problem with this is that we don't have all the facts.
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