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  #401  
Old 11-07-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Taqroy View Post
I LOVE the backwards weave! How did you start that?
Pivots!

Traveler looooves to pivot so much so when he gets bored in heel position he'll start to pivot. Bad habit but worked well for this trick because all I did was stand there and he eventually kicked back and started to twist. From there I just kept my legs spread really wide and didn't move while marking for him moving.

The biggest hurdle was his tail. Stupid tail kept catching on my other leg and wrapping around like a monkey and he would stop and go the other way then instead of all the way through my legs.
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  #402  
Old 11-07-2012, 09:20 PM
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What is a really good "intro to shaping" read? and how would you go about teaching with both luring and shaping?

I am so used to the idea of luring, but I love the idea of working that little puppy brain and am hoping to maybe doing some shaping as well!
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:26 PM
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I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?

Mainly I just winged it and keep chanting to myself to be patient, keep criteria small and not get frustrated.

Honestly, if I were you and being that I was so dependent on luring, I might go into it with the idea to do all shaping. Just try it. Then, more than likely at some point you will end up luring, or half luring, or using your body to mold something. But, going in trying to find the way to shape everything makes you start really examining how you train and the little pieces. I just know from experience when I was like "oh, I can do shaping AND luring" I ended up "cheating" so much and it showed in my training.

Not that luring is bad or cheating! I'm bad at it, but it's a very effective way to train! I just really love shaping now that I do it all the time.

Another idea might be to teach a hand target and use that as a substitute lure.
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  #404  
Old 11-07-2012, 09:52 PM
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One thing that really helped me was teaching Lily to follow my finger as a target, so I can get her going on the right path without having a food lure in hand.
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  #405  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
Pivots!

Traveler looooves to pivot so much so when he gets bored in heel position he'll start to pivot. Bad habit but worked well for this trick because all I did was stand there and he eventually kicked back and started to twist. From there I just kept my legs spread really wide and didn't move while marking for him moving.

The biggest hurdle was his tail. Stupid tail kept catching on my other leg and wrapping around like a monkey and he would stop and go the other way then instead of all the way through my legs.
I'm such a fickle trick teacher. I want to teach backward leg weaves now instead of limp. LOL. At least I wouldn't have to worry about the tail problem??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran101 View Post
What is a really good "intro to shaping" read? and how would you go about teaching with both luring and shaping?

I am so used to the idea of luring, but I love the idea of working that little puppy brain and am hoping to maybe doing some shaping as well!
I don't know of a good book for general shaping - there's one for agility called Shaping Success but I don't know how good it is for not-agility people. I started out with 101 things to do with a box, which is fun, but doesn't really tell you how to proceed from there.

One of the things that really helped me "get it" was shaping a person. It's much harder than you think it is (talking isn't allowed obviously lol) and it really makes you think about what steps and stages you need before you can get the end behavior.

I think it would help to start out with a simple behavior. Tipper's first shaped behavior was "sleepy". You basically start out in a flat and click for ANY chin movement. Once they get that you click for downward movement, then chin hitting the floor, then staying on the floor.

Shaping is a gateway drug. I'm just letting you know. Also, the behaviors my dogs have that are shaped are 100 times stronger than their lured behaviors. Mu STILL throws a head twitch from three years ago that I accidentally clicked when I was trying to shape a spin. It really sticks with them. When I finally get to have another puppy I'm probably going to shape everything I possibly can. Thinking dogs are SO MUCH FUN.
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  #406  
Old 11-08-2012, 01:56 PM
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Here are some of the tricks Zinga is working on right now. All three of these videos are our first sessions of these tricks.

Bowl in a bowl


Handstand... watch at 1:40 for her to offer "frog" in the handstand position.


Lifting same side legs
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  #407  
Old 11-08-2012, 06:12 PM
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Zinga is doing great! The frog/handstand was my fave! I only have one leg going back for frog right now.

Zuma is such a good girl
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  #408  
Old 11-08-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?

Mainly I just winged it and keep chanting to myself to be patient, keep criteria small and not get frustrated.

Honestly, if I were you and being that I was so dependent on luring, I might go into it with the idea to do all shaping. Just try it. Then, more than likely at some point you will end up luring, or half luring, or using your body to mold something. But, going in trying to find the way to shape everything makes you start really examining how you train and the little pieces. I just know from experience when I was like "oh, I can do shaping AND luring" I ended up "cheating" so much and it showed in my training.

Not that luring is bad or cheating! I'm bad at it, but it's a very effective way to train! I just really love shaping now that I do it all the time.

Another idea might be to teach a hand target and use that as a substitute lure.
I think that's what I'm going to do worse comes to worse I cheat a little but I really want to try shaping!
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  #409  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I don't really know any good shaping reads. Maybe Sara does?
Missed this. I don't have any real recommendations on shaping info either. Kikopup would probably be my go-to for youtube videos.

What's odd is that once you become efficient with shaping, luring frustrates you. There are a few tricks that I've attempted to "cheat" at and lure instead of shape and it's only ended up with frustration on both ends. A dog that knows how to shape will pick up on new behaviors by that method the best, by far. Not only are they quicker to pick it up, but they retain the behavior for much longer.

It's easiest to capture behaviors at the beginning that involve an object. Touching a box with a paw, touching a nose to your hand or other target or standing on a box get the puppy thinking. They will also help you with your timing and observation skills. From there you can shape a new behavior stemming off of the captured one. So that paw touch on the box can turn into touching with both paws or pushing the box across the floor. The nose touch to your hand can turn into holding their nose against your hand for a duration. The standing on the box can turn into 2o2o, sitting on the box or laying down on it.

Keeping records is a great way to learn about shaping. Writing out a training plan for the desired behavior, each shaped step along the way, will help you think like your dog. Writing down click rates will help you understand if each stage is fluent enough to move to the next and will prevent you from rushing things. I thought I understood shaping before I went to KPA but didn't realize how little I actually understood about the process until they required me to keep records. Out of everything, I want to say I learned the most from that, not only about the process, but how my individual dog learns.

So, basically, the only way to really gain a good understanding about shaping is by going out there and doing it.
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  #410  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:22 PM
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Frog in handstand was the cutest thing I've seen in a while.
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