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  #21  
Old 01-07-2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Yeah, I really don't want a dog that we cannot get near. Does socialization negatively effect their guarding abilities?
no
check out a forum called Homesteading Today
they have a whole subforum on livestock guards (not just dogs) the lady from Nevada is on it & has lots of good info. it's not the BS that the dogs can defeat anything, she is very realistic about what the dogs can & can't do. in fact she says she won't sell to a person that plans on putting just one dog out on open range w/ a 1000 sheep & expects zero losses. she is a serious educator about the use of LGDs.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Yeah, I really don't want a dog that we cannot get near. Does socialization negatively effect their guarding abilities?
Depends. You really don't want a LSG that would rather be with people than be with stock. For me socializing a LSG that I expected to work yet not be human aggressive would be to socialize them by teaching them to flat out ignore other humans.

The maremmas I was around weren't shy in the slightest. They also were not dogs that sought out people for comfort beyond the food dish. They did come when called but it was more of a benign "well ok." They were really happy just doing their own thing and I didn't find them particularly destructive or dogs that really suffered from separation anxiety or anxious except when they were denied their freedom to wander.
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2012, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
no
check out a forum called Homesteading Today
they have a whole subforum on livestock guards (not just dogs) the lady from Nevada is on it & has lots of good info. it's not the BS that the dogs can defeat anything, she is very realistic about what the dogs can & can't do. in fact she says she won't sell to a person that plans on putting just one dog out on open range w/ a 1000 sheep & expects zero losses. she is a serious educator about the use of LGDs.
The land and number of livestock is important. Most farmers around here have 3-5 of them if they expect the dogs to look after 100 acres or more. My friends had a small flock so one dog was enough.

Our neighbours had 4 or more maremmas (they let them breed) as well as 5 donkeys and some alpacas. They still lost lambs to coyotes. (and they had the maremmas that wanted nothing to do with people)
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2012, 12:20 AM
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Some of the farms around here have brought in the wild burros rescued from out west where they were going to be slaughtered and they've been very effective at discouraging -- and even killing marauding coyotes. Llamas have been effective too, as well as emus.

The problem, though, with the burros, llamas and emus is that they don't discriminate between coyotes and the farm dogs, or cats.
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  #25  
Old 01-08-2012, 12:59 AM
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lol I've never heard of emus being used... llamas yes. Mine will try to stop canines but not cats or chickens or anything else.
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:29 AM
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I hadn't either, but several farmers around here swear by them . . . and at them sometimes, lol.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
The land and number of livestock is important. Most farmers around here have 3-5 of them if they expect the dogs to look after 100 acres or more. My friends had a small flock so one dog was enough.

Our neighbours had 4 or more maremmas (they let them breed) as well as 5 donkeys and some alpacas. They still lost lambs to coyotes. (and they had the maremmas that wanted nothing to do with people)
we still have open range out west, hundreds of thousands of acres that one flock can scatter across. that is as important as the numbers in the flock.
put one dog on 5 acres w/ 5ft field fencing & a barn & you don't even need a dedicated LGD (filas have performed extremely well in situations like this). there are so many variables to achieve success. but after you've done everything else, numbers of dogs that really want to do the job seem to be the final factor.
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  #28  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:49 AM
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I have heard of people using ostriches in Arizona. I have also heard that within a generation coyotes learn to adapt and have no problem attacking Llamas, donkeys, and two legged big birds.

The main thing is a dose of reality. LSG dogs are not a magic wand anymore than a PP dog will knock down doors, off the badguy, smoke a cigarette, and then call 911 for you.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandra View Post
lol I've never heard of emus being used... llamas yes. Mine will try to stop canines but not cats or chickens or anything else.
My aunt raised an emu chick as a novelty. Maya the emu lived in the chicken yard with a pair of geese and about thirty chickens, and was extremely gentle and tame. They even trained her to pull a cart for my little cousins to ride in. One morning she went out to feed the birds, and there was Maya pecking at a dead coyote. My aunt was very pleased, though she said she had no idea an emu would do that.
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  #30  
Old 01-08-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
we still have open range out west, hundreds of thousands of acres that one flock can scatter across. that is as important as the numbers in the flock.
put one dog on 5 acres w/ 5ft field fencing & a barn & you don't even need a dedicated LGD (filas have performed extremely well in situations like this). there are so many variables to achieve success. but after you've done everything else, numbers of dogs that really want to do the job seem to be the final factor.
Around here there are far far more LGD breeds than Filas. I had never even met a fila till I met Kharma.

Our land is very hilly and such. Even with all those animals I posted on a 300 acre farm (the sheep roamed about 200 of it) our neighbours lost over 100 lambs one season to coyotes. You need lots of protectors as you can't see very far, and our coyotes are plentiful

Our friends with the one LGB also had a llama and a BC. They still lost the odd sheep but nothing like before. And that was with about 30 adult sheep roaming about 30 of their 100 acres.

So land and predation rates are going to has a great an effect as the number of LGB dogs. Esp if you have herds that like to split. Sheep are also dumb, they are for ever wandering away from the group. Easy noms for some stealthy coyote.
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