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  #11  
Old 11-18-2004, 04:09 PM
agilitydobemom agilitydobemom is offline
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Serena

I was say that AKC (American Kennels Club), CKC (Canadian Kennel Club), and UKC (United Kennel Club) are the only reputable registries I know of and if at all possible any and all others should be avoided like
ACA
CKC (Contenintal Kennel Club)
UAB (United All Breed)
and any of the others not mentioned
Just to clear things up
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2004, 05:22 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Serena - something I've never seen, so I'll ask you: can you, will you give us a good definition/comparison of the backyard breeder vs. the hobby breeder?
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2004, 05:34 PM
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Denaluvscorgis Denaluvscorgis is offline
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I agree with you Debi 100% I think that there are alot of breeders that hide behind those AKC papers. I have seen some puppies from breeders with AKC registered dogs, and to be totally honest with you, I would not want one of their puppies. Alot of times their dogs they use for breeders are not properly take care of at all.

Chloe, my Crogi is now spayed. We only wanted to let her have on litter of puppies, and I'm really glad that we did. They have been such a delight to our family, as well as our animal family.

I only have a few more days with them. I'm really going to miss them so much.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2004, 05:41 PM
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well, OUCH. Serena......I loves ya hon. I sooooooo respect you. But, is it just a matter of your way is the ONLY way? If someone has a pair of dogs, respectably AKC registered......good lines, good health. Are you saying they are awful for breeding pups? Somehow that doesn't seem all that fair to me. What makes the standard for a qualified 'breeder'? Some politics.....like they belong to some breeder club...where do they go to be 'proven'? What if they appear to be qualifed breeders, but in reality they could also care less...that money IS the bottom line for them? WHAT MAKES THEM PROVEN????? Not trying to be a pain in your patootie. You know I acknowledge your serious knowledge...I look to you for guidence. How does the average person really know...reputation aside, because it can be bogus.........that a person breeds a dog solely for the quality of the breed? Papers don't say that to me.........what says that to ME to make it a person up to your standards?
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2004, 05:54 PM
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One last question....what if someone bought 2 dogs from reputable breeders....and they decided to breed them. Now....since we are to assume these are top-notch dogs.......is that so bad???? I guess I don't always understand the 'line' that gets crossed. IF that is the scenerio..what is so bad about it? This is my own curiosity. I don't advocate BYB or puppy mills at all. This is just MY QUESTIONING.



If my questioning upsets anyone.....forgive me. I come here for information. I want to learn. IF it's a matter of a hard-line one thing only way of thinking...I guess I'll go elsewhere.
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2004, 06:05 PM
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Although it didn't exactly address the term "hobby breeder" that I hear from time to time, it did reassure me as to my and Charley's intentions. Having a rare breed that is a real working breed with so many 'special' qualities creates some judgment calls and awesome responsibilities. Our only real goad for breeding is to ensure that we have dogs with superb lines, health, agility, temperament and retain all their working capabilities, and we primarily want to keep our own dogs. My parents will get a dog. There may be a few CAREFULLY placed (very experienced dog owners, room for a dog of this magnitude, desire to have a dog that has to be surgically removed from your side - lol, etc.), but most will be staying right here on the farm working and being spoiled rotten.

One thing about it, at least I know both girls have absolutely impeccable lines. We were extremely fortunate to find such good breed examples without having to travel all over the country - and beyond. Once Charley decided he wanted Fila Brasileiros, he would've gone to the ends of the earth looking for the right one!
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2004, 06:29 PM
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So I guess I'm just still wondering...what makes the breeder so 'knowlegable'..so defined? Do they come under some juristiction of certification? If I researched buying Hammie for a year.....picked the breeder....feel confident they are top-notch. Then I find a female of equal quality. (this is hypothetical..we know poor Ham is neutered...lol) IF..just IF I feel I know enough about the breed to cross breed them for pups....what is it that makes me a BYB?? If I feel my pups were bred for temperament, breed improvement?? Why would it be so bad if my "Princess" bred because she is amazing? IF I were someone that did this without the benefit of certification.......but just a true love of the breed? Why is it so horrid that I sell these pups as pets...if I feel they have great temperament and the parents are wonderful? I just think sometimes the answers to some of this are so biased......so 'cut and dried' as the opinion of few. That doesn't make it law to me. I wish this board could be a little more open. OK....will end this now. lol I confess that I've always been someone not prone to take the absolute opinion of one or two as complete. It is my business background......and I've been the devil's advocate most often when thinking something through. No need to respond. I think we've hashed it out.

Now........back to the muddy paw problem........................................... .
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2004, 06:46 PM
i'm_sofa_king i'm_sofa_king is offline
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so basically your saying that anybody who dosen't buy a dog from a reputable breeders is buying an inferior dog? what? if your not going to "show" and you just want it for a family pet, what does it matter? its the same thing as having a mutt for a family pet. they still are good pets. just because its from a "BYB" dosen't mean squat to me. as long as the dog is healthy, and keeps my wife happy, thats all i need.

another thing, some people live in areas of the country where there aren't any reputable breeders, so all they have is farmer Brown down the street who's got some puppies for sale.

i guess i never should have started this thread.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2004, 07:23 PM
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Im sofa king......it was very GOOD to start this thread! It's always good to talk things thru. How else do we learn or get other opinions. If it isn't always your opinion, that's ok....still always something to learn. That is what makes the world so wonderful.......different people, lots of opinions. Good stuff. I love hearing all sides to an issue. Keeps me fresh. LOL I always have an open mind....like to ask questions.




Now...about that muddy paw problem.........................................
Have a GREAT night!
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2004, 08:53 PM
agilitydobemom agilitydobemom is offline
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I just wanted to add that I totally agree with Serena in every aspect that she has pointed out but theres somthing that I want to add

Serena pointed out
If your not going to show and just want a pet, you should still care enough about your future pet to ensure it has every chance of living a life free of painful genetic and temperamental diseases...if that is not important to you then go to a byb, support breeders that pump out poorly bred inferior dogs with no knowledge of health..because your likely to get a poorly bred dog full of genetic problems because they don't care about these things.

My point to what she said above is that people buy these dogs generally not knowing that they are buying an "inferior" dog like this then they get fusterated and run out of money trying to treat these dogs for various ailments (take hip displaysia this wouldn't even be a problem if people in the past would have bred away from it), training, and what ever else that has to be corrected due to inferior breeding of course some of it is the dogs enviorment or other things but some things can be avoided gentically and these dogs end up in shelters or rescues because the people who took the dog in the first place get fed up with these dogs
The other problem with BYB's is that they do not stand behind their dogs once the pup leaves the premises they are the new owners responsibility ALL resposible breeders stand behind their dogs for the rest of the dogs life and guarantee against genetic defects, demand that any pet quality pups are spayed or neutered, and will take the pup back if the owners ever want to get rid of it, they do home checks to make sure the pup is going to a good home, they interview potential puppy owners, they will answer any questions at any time about the puppy, they also recommend the new owners take a puppy obidience class, they also match pups to owners to be sure they are a right fit and most often if they think the puppy will not fit in the home they won't sell it to you
In ending BYB's DO NOT DO THIS and the most horrible thing is they are breeding for money, or so their family can experience the miracle of life and this is the last reason that anyone should breed a dog for if you want your family to experience the miracle of life watch Animal Planets "Thats My Baby"
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