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  #61  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:28 PM
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Aimee, you know I'm basically a one-breed person. But I've developed a healthy respect for Bostons. The ones I've met that aren't total fruit loops are a lot of fun.
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  #62  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:31 PM
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Oh dear. Don't you have at least one big dog, too? That says you shouldn't have Paps with big dogs.

I don't know a lot of 4H kids who care for the dogs exclusively. Most of them are, as Aleron said, family dogs. This would also be several years down the road. A 10yo is not a small child.

I probably shouldn't mention that my friend's 10yo is making her 4H debut this year with their 4 lbs Yorkie that has miraculously survived living with three children and four large dogs. It's so sad to see such a loved little dog proudly trained by a sweet kid.
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  #63  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:35 PM
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Oh dear. Don't you have at least one big dog, too? That says you shouldn't have Paps with big dogs.
I do have a large dog. Who crates and rotates with the papillons and in the 3 + years I've had her has never visited with one except through the crate door. What's your point where it concerns my dogs?

I also live with two very young children who aren't allowed to play with or handle my dogs. Again, what's your point where it concerns my dogs?
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  #64  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:35 PM
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If I was looking for an ACD, I would go to a breeder that health tests and has had dogs that have done well in competitive obedience and with junior handlers. Hillhaven dogs come to mind. But, I'm not looking for an ACD at this point.
I assumed you would go to a good breeder, I was just saying that if you went the ACD route it might be a good idea to get an adult who you could really evaluate with children. Like I said, the ones I have worked with really weren't kid-friendly (this is more to do with typical kids - obviously there are some that are very dog savvy that would be a better fit).

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Believe it or not, I actually have experience successfully obtaining, training, and handling dogs
I don't think I implied anywhere that I thought you were incompetent or ignorant, if it came across that way I apologize. You asked for breed suggestions so I gave my thoughts on what breeds I thought may be good and which ones I thought may be best to avoid. I also have successfully obtained, trained and handled dogs - including an ACD foster who had a LOT of issues. In addition, I believe I was quite a dog-savvy 10 year old. Heck, I think I was only 11 or 12 when I first joined this forum... And despite having a lot of knowledge, I still think an ACD would have been too much for me. Anyway like I said, I think an ACD is a lot of dog for a young kid and that there are breeds out there that would make a much better 'first dog' so to speak. In no way was I trying to be condescending, just honest.


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Just to play devils advocate.. people say all sorts of things about JRTs... BUT loads of kids, even little kids do the junior handling with JRTs. They are a lot of dog too, yes they are smaller. But I have seen 4 year olds in the ring with well trained JRTs. Darien has been handling Kaiden since he was 5 and ran AAC juniors with Kaiden when he was 6. No I wouldnt' have handed him Dekka to handle on a show ground. But he was fine with Kaiden.

Darien would have very little trouble with an ACD even an edgy one. Sport is a lot of dog, and somewhat reactive too. He is your typically badly bred BC with loads of drive, little impulse control, bad social skills and insecurity. However Darien handles him beautifully and understands his dog. (Darien is now 11) I think people don't credit kids enough. A kid from a dog savvy home is likely better equipped to handle a difficult dog (not that I think they should) that the average person.[/B] On that note I don't see an issue with a toy breed. Darien is careful and good with puppies and small dogs. Dog savvy parents usually raise dog savvy kids.
I agree with you on the bolded point. I knew a lot for an 11 year old about dogs. I started researching to get my first dog around that age and 4 years later got Spy I think I knew a lot more back then than the average joe did. Based on the ACDs I have worked with though, I would still be cautious giving one to a child as a first dog (even if the parents were going to oversee the handling). I am not saying that no kid could handle one because I know that isn't the case, like you said with Darien, but I think it would certainly take a very involved, dog savvy family and a child who takes a special interest and is really into dogs.
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  #65  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:42 PM
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... to me it's like someone saying they want to herd sheep and someone recommending a basset hound. We have breeds far more suited to the span of hypothetical situations related to herding so why not go with one of those? Not that a basset hound somewhere couldn't herd sheep, just like a bulldog somewhere could be a water retriever, just like a pekinese somewhere probably could do agility-I just don't recommend any of those breeds for those purposes because there are far better choices available for the purpose in mind IMO.
This was what I was getting at with my points about the ACD and the other breed I suggested. You wrote it much better than I did
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  #66  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
I do have a large dog. Who crates and rotates with the papillons and in the 3 + years I've had her has never visited with one except through the crate door. What's your point where it concerns my dogs?

I also live with two very young children who aren't allowed to play with or handle my dogs. Again, what's your point where it concerns my dogs?

You are posting information that says that Papillons shouldn't be in homes with small children or large dogs. What if the crate door broke? I've heard of more crating hardware failures than children seriously injuring the family dog.

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In some circumstances Papillons are not an ideal breed to have with very young children or to mix with larger dogs, there are of course exceptions but accidents can and do happen and a small fine boned breed does not mix well with boisterous children or large dogs.
You are obviously an exception. Can there be no others?

Not all children are going to go Godzilla stomping on all of the toy breed residents of Tokyo, and it's ridiculous and insulting to keep insisting that they will.

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It's really not about the sky is falling to me it's like someone saying they want to herd sheep and someone recommending a basset hound. We have breeds far more suited to the span of hypothetical situations related to herding so why not go with one of those? Not that a basset hound somewhere couldn't herd sheep, just like a bulldog somewhere could be a water retriever, just like a pekinese somewhere probably could do agility-I just don't recommend any of those breeds for those purposes because there are far better choices available for the purpose in mind IMO.
Like how Dachshunds, Beagles, and Shibas are great obedience dogs?
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  #67  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:57 PM
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Ok you know what... this is STUPID. You're right, I'm wrong and I never hope you find out otherwise. Cheers and feel comforted by your own sense of superiority on the matter.

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  #68  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:59 PM
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Bostons can be great with kids given the proper training and I think would fit your needs well. My Joey is a celebrity among my mother's daycare kids. He even helped one little boy get over his fear of dogs. He lets them pet him and play with his toys. He'll do all his tricks for them and they give him cheerios for rewards. They will take him for walks and he's the perfect gentleman on a leash. Bostons really are a fun little breed.
I wish I could meet your dogs, your stories about Joey always bring a smile to my face. Out of the hundreds of Bostons I've met, I can think about three that didn't make me go WTF?

It also doesn't help that my neighbors across the street have two that love to jump and scream on their front door and will come charging out of their house any given chance and into my yard to harass Sawyer. Sawyer can't stand Bostons either--too many have just randomly come flying out of nowhere to latch on to him.
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  #69  
Old 12-19-2011, 12:26 AM
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Bull breeds always gotta show those fuzzybutts who's boss.
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  #70  
Old 12-19-2011, 12:42 AM
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I wish I could meet your dogs, your stories about Joey always bring a smile to my face. Out of the hundreds of Bostons I've met, I can think about three that didn't make me go WTF?

It also doesn't help that my neighbors across the street have two that love to jump and scream on their front door and will come charging out of their house any given chance and into my yard to harass Sawyer. Sawyer can't stand Bostons either--too many have just randomly come flying out of nowhere to latch on to him.
Thanks! They crack me up everyday. I think a lot of boston owners suffer from the "cute little doggie owner" syndrome. Their dogs are little and cute so they can't do any wrong. They can't hurt anyone...they're too little! Which is definitely not the case. My two are far from perfect, but I understand their limitations and don't put them in situations they cannot handle.
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