Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > The Breeding Ground


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Michiyo-Fir Michiyo-Fir is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,392
Default

My friend said she wants a puppy from this breeder that she found herself.

She wants a puppy out of their farm bred cattle dogs, not the AKC ones. I think they breed both AKC types and farm dog types without any registration.

Hmm...I'm definitely not sold on this breeder but she doesn't care that much about health tests and stuff like that despite the warnings I've given her since she's always had farm dogs from ranches in the area.

http://www.ksranchheelers.com/

I'm still going to encourage her to talk to people on AuCaDo though.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:14 AM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default

Good luck. That breeder is putting a lot of false information on her website. There is no such thing as a "chocolate gene" in cattle dogs. Mixing reds and blues will only produce reds and blues. I highly suspect a few of her dogs to be mixes. Don't know what the stigma is against AKC cattle dogs. They are supposed to be built stocky to take a kick from a cow. I can refer you to quite a few AKC breeders who fully health test their dogs AND do herding. I hate to post links to websites on a public forum, but it seems your friend is sold on just having a "non-AKC" dog. I'd tell her to go to rescue or just spend $50 in the local paper.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-20-2011, 04:22 PM
Michiyo-Fir Michiyo-Fir is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
They are supposed to be built stocky to take a kick from a cow. I can refer you to quite a few AKC breeders who fully health test their dogs AND do herding. I hate to post links to websites on a public forum, but it seems your friend is sold on just having a "non-AKC" dog. I'd tell her to go to rescue or just spend $50 in the local paper.
To be honest, if you look at purely working cattle dogs on actual ranches in Texas, most are MUCH leggier than the show bred dogs, also they do not have the giant bulky head. I mean the people that do not care even the littlest bit about conformation and purely breed dogs for future generations of working dogs, with leftover pups that go to fellow farmers and ranchers. I have told her that many AKC breeders do herding as well. But she doesn't believe in the standards of AKC herding at all. She said to me that she thinks, any dogs with any prey drive and training, including retrievers can do AKC herding because it's more about placing the dog and having the dog walk in such a way than actual herding because the sheep are so used to the procedures and patterns. I really have no comment on this since I haven't observed either AKC herding or actual farm/ranch herding and I have absolutely no knowledge about herding.

I think you might be right that she doesn't want an AKC dog. She doesn't believe that working dogs/breeds should EVER be bred for the show ring which to me is quite extreme. Although I love dogs bred to work, I have no problems with dogs bred for the show ring as long as they're being bred responsibly and not to extremes.

I had told my friend that this breeder doesn't look like the best of choices either, considering what little information they provide and the number of Fair (not good or excellent) hips dogs they have.

She's now saying she wants to go to Alberta, where her grandparents live and just drive to the more rural areas with farming communities and pick a pup from any working farm that happens to have cattle dog puppies.

Edit: Actually, here it would be the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:53 PM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default

That's all well and good, but I do live in Texas, and yes farm dogs are stocky. Not all of them, but there are stocky big headed farm dogs. A personal friend of mine took her farm-bred ranch dog and finished him in AKC conformation.

This is truly a breed that has not deviated much from the original purpose. The majortiy of AKC conformation dogs still have instinct for herding and the drive and temperament to do it day in and day out. I have owned 3 AKC registered cattle dogs and all of them came out of working stock. My oldest bitch's mom was a ranch dog (finished AKC ch). Her owner competed in team roping and the dog went to rodeos and helped with moving stock, no AKC herding titles. Her dad was an AKC Ch as well as titled in herding and was a ranch hand at home in his everyday job. My male's parents are both AKC ch's and titled in herding in AKC and ASCA. Both of them work on the breeder's cattle/sheep farm too. There are perfectly good, standard-fitting dogs out there who have jobs and do herding. I'm not necessarily talking about AKC herding either. All of mine have been worked on sheep, but I don't have time to trial, nor do I live near a herding trainer or have access to sheep and cows. They all have instict though, and all have proven biddable to training.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-20-2011, 05:56 PM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default

I'm not trying to jump on you or personally attack you, but to me it's like asking the breed to split. The standard is put into place for a reason. Find a breeder you like who has stable working dogs. If she's just set on a lanky dog, one will come along, there's a small one, or a tall one, or a lanky one in every litter. Doesn't mean they won't herd, just means they probably wouldn't be considered pick of the litter because they don't represent an all around standard-fitting cattle dog.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:22 PM
Bahamutt99's Avatar
Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Dafuq?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365
Default

This may be a bit OT: but can someone tell me what's the proper temperament for an ACD? We get "heelers" in occasionally for baths and whatnot. I've only met one that was friendly. Most are almost painfully shy and neurotic. I've seen some drop deuces because they're so stressed at being out of their home environment and handled by strangers. I get the impression that they're "one-person" dogs, but how much of this is the breed itself and how much is poor breeding/handling/socialization?
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lindsay
& the Gravity Dogs


Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:44 PM
OutlineACDs's Avatar
OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
Crazy Dog!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamutt99 View Post
This may be a bit OT: but can someone tell me what's the proper temperament for an ACD? We get "heelers" in occasionally for baths and whatnot. I've only met one that was friendly. Most are almost painfully shy and neurotic. I've seen some drop deuces because they're so stressed at being out of their home environment and handled by strangers. I get the impression that they're "one-person" dogs, but how much of this is the breed itself and how much is poor breeding/handling/socialization?
The majority of heelers you see down south are poorly bred and ill temperamented. I think a certain level of psychosis comes with all herding breeds <g>, but the less socialization these guys get, the worse they are.

Just from being on this board, I kind of think they need the "fila-treatment". Get em out, get em out young, get em out a lot. The more people, animals, noises, situations they encounter the better. This breed tends to take matters into their own hands and thats a horrible thing if the dog doesn't know what normal situations are. They also need to be taught that they do not control everything. "Hate getting your nails done? Oh really? Well, now I'm grinding em twice a week." If you let them push you once they will do it again. I can't say honestly how my dogs would do out of my hands, but if I hold them, the vet/techs/whoever can do anything they want. When my oldest had cancer, I held her on the table while my vet took lung aspirations with no sedation. It says in the standard "must be amenable to handling in the show ring" and "approaches strangers with a suspicious glint". I'd bet the majority you see (just knowing what part of the country you live in) have never left the farm. They can really become psychotically shy without socialization, and like I said, if they have never been made to do anything they usually react badly.

This is NOT a dog for most people. Most loyal dog you'll ever own if you can earn the respect, but its a long and trying road.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:34 PM
HayleyMarie's Avatar
HayleyMarie HayleyMarie is offline
Like a bat outa' hell
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beautiful British Columbia!!
Posts: 6,926
Default

OutlineACD, you make me want an ACD!!!
__________________


Teagan Westhighland White Terrier
Panzer South African Boerboel Mastiff
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:52 PM
Zoom's Avatar
Zoom Zoom is offline
Twin 2.0
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 40,737
Default

ACD's have been on my short list for years, I've just never quite gone with one.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-20-2011, 09:01 PM
Bahamutt99's Avatar
Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Dafuq?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365
Default

That's always a possibility. And those that clearly aren't working dogs are probably just someone's pet that only ever gets out to see the vet and get groomed every 6 months. Okay, so suspicion of strangers is normal. I kind of figured that. But not fighting tooth and nail to avoid a bath. LOL!
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lindsay
& the Gravity Dogs


Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site