Would you buy from a breeder who uses kennels?

[noodlerubyallie]

It depends on the purpose of the dog.

In no way, shape, or form would I buy a puppy, raised and living outside or inside in a kennel, from a breeder who is breeding a dog that is meant to protect people. They need the people interaction from day one, and an hour a day isn't going to cut it.

Rocket's breeder has 6 permanent residents, on up to 10 adult Dobermans (plus a litter of puppies, occasionally) that have to be separated. Every room has a door and a baby gate. She has two runs in her garage for the puppies when they are about 5-7 weeks...prior to that they are inside and after that they are crated. There's a huge yard, plus the backyard has 6 runs and two extra separate areas off the side of the house. During nice weather everyone spends most of the day outside, but every night every one of those dogs is asleep in the house. They all have their designated areas in the house so everyone gets house time, attention, and outside time - all supervised.

What's the point of keeping dogs outside that are meant to protect the people inside, you know?

In other breeds? Possibly, depends on what the dog is bred for and the climate they live in. Here, it's crazy cold in the winter and really hot and humid in the summer, so I wouldn't expect most dogs to live in an outdoor kennel year round. I see it, but it's not as common. I could totally see Siberians outside, as well as any of the Sporting/Herding breeds and some of the Guardians....I guess what I'm getting at is purpose of the dog is what leads me to my opinion.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by sillysally

Well, a dog doesn't NEED to be from a breeder to be a great performance dog, but it's about stacking the deck, no?

Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.

I would think that getting a puppy from a breeder whose dogs have proven they have stable nerves and the confidence necessary to handle any situation WOULD be stacking the deck.

But like I said, everyone has their own opinion.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Emily

Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.

Originally Posted by MyHorseMyRules

I would think that getting a puppy from a breeder whose dogs have proven they have stable nerves and the confidence necessary to handle any situation WOULD be stacking the deck.

But like I said, everyone has their own opinion.

They both said it so perfectly, I'll just repeat them.

[SizzleDog]

Originally Posted by noodlerubyallie

It depends on the purpose of the dog.

In no way, shape, or form would I buy a puppy, raised and living outside or inside in a kennel, from a breeder who is breeding a dog that is meant to protect people. They need the people interaction from day one, and an hour a day isn't going to cut it.

Rocket's breeder has 6 permanent residents, on up to 10 adult Dobermans (plus a litter of puppies, occasionally) that have to be separated. Every room has a door and a baby gate. She has two runs in her garage for the puppies when they are about 5-7 weeks...prior to that they are inside and after that they are crated. There's a huge yard, plus the backyard has 6 runs and two extra separate areas off the side of the house. During nice weather everyone spends most of the day outside, but every night every one of those dogs is asleep in the house. They all have their designated areas in the house so everyone gets house time, attention, and outside time - all supervised.

What's the point of keeping dogs outside that are meant to protect the people inside, you know?

In other breeds? Possibly, depends on what the dog is bred for and the climate they live in. Here, it's crazy cold in the winter and really hot and humid in the summer, so I wouldn't expect most dogs to live in an outdoor kennel year round. I see it, but it's not as common. I could totally see Siberians outside, as well as any of the Sporting/Herding breeds and some of the Guardians....I guess what I'm getting at is purpose of the dog is what leads me to my opinion.

Totally agree. Obviously I'm find with my dobes' breeder's setup as well, since NRA and I both have dogs from the same breeder.

Wanted to clarify- by "garage" - we mean "climate controlled room adjacent to the garage."

If I'm buying a personal protection breed, I want that puppy to have had close physical contact with a human being for a hefty chunk of its young life thus far. Especially in a breed that is known for their profound attachment to their owners.

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by Emily

Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.

But again, why NOT have a pup exposed to all of the house sounds if you are going to have it in the house? I personally think that the more things a pup is exposed to early in life the better. If you don't think that makes a difference, then don't worry about it.

I guess I'm not sure why this is really an issue. I am going to have my dogs in my home, so why have them raised in a home from day 1?

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by MyHorseMyRules

I would think that getting a puppy from a breeder whose dogs have proven they have stable nerves and the confidence necessary to handle any situation WOULD be stacking the deck.

Why does a dog have to be raised in a kennel to prove this?

Originally Posted by sillysally

Why does a dog have to be raised in a kennel to prove this?

Did I say that? I was saying that the dogs being produced are far more important to me than whether they were raised in a house or in a kennel. If you'll refer to my earlier post, I said that I understand people not wanting them to be raised outside of the home itself simply because they're not comfortable with it. But to say that they have to be raised inside to be properly socialized...? That, I don't get.

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by MyHorseMyRules

Did I say that? I was saying that the dogs being produced are far more important to me than whether they were raised in a house or in a kennel. If you'll refer to my earlier post, I said that I understand people not wanting them to be raised outside of the home itself simply because they're not comfortable with it. But to say that they have to be raised inside to be properly socialized...? That, I don't get.

I don't think I said that they HAD to be raised inside to be properly socialized. I do think that it is more likely that they will be socialized and raised in the way that I am interested in and comfortable with if they are raised inside. It's not like I am going to call a breeder, ask if their pups are raised inside, and if they are look no further. I have a list of things I want in a breeder and on that list is pups raised indoors.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by sillysally

But again, why NOT have a pup exposed to all of the house sounds if you are going to have it in the house? I personally think that the more things a pup is exposed to early in life the better. If you don't think that makes a difference, then don't worry about it.

I guess I'm not sure why this is really an issue. I am going to have my dogs in my home, so why have them raised in a home from day 1?

It's not that there's any real reason NOT to do it. Myself and a few others are just saying that it makes little difference, in the end. In other words, there's no reason TO do it, either. We're all just saying that a stable dog won't flip if it wasn't exposed to a vacuum from birth onwards, and sees one at 8 weeks. That's all. So for me, finding a breeder that is producing the kind of dog I want is more important than house/kennel/chain spot, as long as the dogs are well-cared for.

I dunno, my Cardi was raised in a home and VERY well socialized. And yep, she has a great temp, is a great performance prospect, and a god awful housepet. Too much energy, too much drive, no offswitch. Luckily I don't care, LOL, and I think it's kind of funny. Her breeder did some things early on that I SUPER appreciate, like encouraging her to retrieve and nurturing her prey drive, that I do feel helped shape her into a better performance dog.

BUT, I know lots of breeders of working dogs (Mals, Dutchies, GSDs, the like) that do all those things, and the pups live in kennels. Some people involved in bite sports will actually tell you that kennels are better for pups, because too many house rules will squash drive (not saying I agree, just pointing out a their way of thinking).

I mean, you have to understand that Lindsey and I have the shared experience of having a woman with a skittish rescue Dobe watch Traveler playing as a 9 week old puppy. She remarked, "What a confident little puppy! He must have been socialized early." And both of us just sat there and thought, "He didn't leave the ranch he was born on until he flew across the world to come here..." Watching a kennel raised pup from parents that are not pets but dogs that have to work to eat (and will be leaving if they don't work) adapt to life as a housepet and sport dog with no problem has strongly influenced both our opinions (if I may speak for you, Linds. )

Like I said, no one's saying there's any reason NOT to raise them in the house, just that we've not found any particular benefit either.