Breeding out DA

[Lossalfling]

I guess im lucky. Puck is not what i would call DA. He can be DR when outside of the house if a dog comes at him without proper doggie manners,( he hates to be growled and snipped at) I just have always made sure that no fights happen. He is great with both pax and Jack and other dogs that come to play in his yard. I think that breeding it out would cause more issues than it worth and if the owners would just accept its part of the breed and use caustion when around other dogs its very managable. It would have been hard if he showed DA to my other dogs but i was always aware it was possible and just glad it has not happened to this point. Wouldnt change owning him for the world though.

[Bahamutt99]

Yeah, there are days when I think it would be so much easier to deal with non-DA dogs. Like today. I had to take a long lunch to come home and let the dogs out (all 14 of them). It would have been easier and allowed them to have more time out if I could put any of them out in yards together. But with only me here, the safest option is to not try it, even though there are a few who usually get along.

I am on board with choosing a breed that is most likely to fit your needs. That makes perfect sense. I think sometimes I forget what its like to actually live with typically dog-friendly dogs. I always consider the possibility that any dog can turn DA as they age, but maybe that's not the case with most.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Bahamutt99

I am on board with choosing a breed that is most likely to fit your needs. That makes perfect sense. I think sometimes I forget what its like to actually live with typically dog-friendly dogs. I always consider the possibility that any dog can turn DA as they age, but maybe that's not the case with most.

It's so funny when I talk to a good friend of mine with three APBT's. She doesn't even think about it. Crating and rotating is just a part of life and how she plans on most of her life being. And to me, I just hate the idea of it. I like my dogs to all be able to lay around together, play together and just be together.

Luckily, I haven't yet heard of a Koolie that doesn't live peacefully for the most part with the other house dogs.

[ravennr]

I don't mind dealing with DR/DA. I grew up with Pitties and I learned from a young age that it's something you deal with in the breed when it is present. I've dealt with it in quite a few breeds, and mixes.


So, I agree it would be a bad thing to actively try to breed it out. Gene pool shrinking, and the fact that I don't feel anyone should try to fix something when I don't consider it to be broken, are just a couple of reasons.

If I could own one again, I would in a heartbeat. If DA is present, we will deal with it.

I've never dealt with an AmStaff. How much less-prominent is DA within them?

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by Bahamutt99

A question to those who have said they value dog-tolerance and have deliberately chosen dog-tolerant breeds because of that. What would you do if a dog you selected from a dog-tolerant breed ended up being DA later in life? I'm genuinely curious. I wonder how many people with non-APBTs consider this possibility.

Well, my dogs and the breeds I tend to like aren't the happy go lucky love every dog in the world type of breeds and that's fine with me. I've never had a real dog park type dog that actually enjoys playing with strange dogs. I don't need that kind of dog and I'd go so far to say that I don't want that kind of dog. Nor do I want a dog that loves every person they meet. I want a little bit of that edge when it comes to outside dogs and people. The love everyone attitude tends to annoy me. (Even though Summer loves every person in the world)

I'll be honest though if my two suddenly decided they hated each other and started fighting to kill each other, I would probably rehome Summer to my dad. I know that sounds awful but I am gone to work a lot and I want the time I have free to be able to have both dogs out at the same time. Summer loves everyone and loves Rose and Beau and would be happy there. Mia doesn't get along as well with the others and is a harder dog to handle.

Mia can be kind of sharp and reactive at times and I deal with that. I just don't want two in house dogs that try to eat each other all the time. And I always want multiple dogs. That's the only reason it's an issue. If I only wanted to own one dog in the future, I honestly wouldn't care one way or another about DA.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by Bahamutt99

I am on board with choosing a breed that is most likely to fit your needs. That makes perfect sense. I think sometimes I forget what its like to actually live with typically dog-friendly dogs. I always consider the possibility that any dog can turn DA as they age, but maybe that's not the case with most.

I know tons of people with lots of papillons and never known anyone that has had to crate and rotate them. We've even combined up to 3 packs with intact boys and girls before (16 total dogs) and never had a problem at all. One pap play day at my breeders' there were 50 some odd dogs there and although not all were let out at the same time, there were no fights at all. I just watched a video of another pap group that had a little over 30 dogs and a bunch of people and the paps in the video were just all hanging out no issue in the yard. I like that.

[Fran101]

Personally DA is just not something I am fit to deal with. Not in a city filled with dogs, with walk space being a popular park, in a condo with dogs, in elevators with other dogs, 52 stories up in a lobby with other dogs, on subways with dogs and of course sharing sidewalks with other dogs.

It happened with Romeo, even tiny guy that he is, after being attacked now attacks/freaks and then shuts down around other dogs... And it simply wasn't possible. That was a case of the perfect little dog for me, who through seemingly impossible circumstance, became a dog that didn't enjoy the life he once had AT ALL. Even with 2 behaviorist.. He was miserable in the city in our life.
He now lives with my cousin in the suburbs, and they continue to work on his issues, but he is 100x less stressed and happier there. He enjoys walks and life outside the house again...
It's really a sobering realization that no, I am not capable of dealing with a dog with dog aggression.. Especially if I decided to go with a larger breed it would be a stressed miserable life for us both.

I could deal with DA in Romeo maybe, he is small.. I could just try to hold him/avoid other dogs and only put him down when the coast is clear (although what a life..) but I can't deal with how miserable/stressed his DA issues make him. This formerly fearless happy dog turns into a shaking, peeing, barking , hiding mess in the uber dog city environment and it kills me to see it

So in the future, ya, this is a trait I am very very wary of in breeds. I have even gone so far as to decide that already dog friendly matured dogs are probably my only option

[HayleyMarie]

Originally Posted by Fran101

Personally DA is just not something I am fit to deal with. Not in a city filled with dogs, with walk space being a popular park, in a condo with dogs, in elevators with other dogs, 52 stories up in a lobby with other dogs, on subways with dogs and of course sharing sidewalks with other dogs.

It happened with Romeo, even tiny guy that he is, after being attacked now attacks/freaks and then shuts down around other dogs... And it simply wasn't possible. That was a case of the perfect little dog for me, who through seemingly impossible circumstance, became a dog that didn't enjoy the life he once had AT ALL. Even with 2 behaviorist.. He was miserable in the city in our life.
He now lives with my cousin in the suburbs, and they continue to work on his issues, but he is 100x less stressed and happier there. He enjoys walks and life outside the house again...
It's really a sobering realization that no, I am not capable of dealing with a dog with dog aggression.. Especially if I decided to go with a larger breed it would be a stressed miserable life for us both.

I could deal with DA in Romeo maybe, he is small.. I could just try to hold him/avoid other dogs and only put him down when the coast is clear (although what a life..) but I can't deal with how miserable/stressed his DA issues make him. This formerly fearless happy dog turns into a shaking, peeing, barking , hiding mess in the uber dog city environment and it kills me to see it

So in the future, ya, this is a trait I am very very wary of in breeds. I have even gone so far as to decide that already dog friendly matured dogs are probably my only option

First things first (((((HUGGIES))))) Fran!!

I've pretty much have come to accept that I probably will always be surrounded by a dog that has some form of DA/DR. Most if not all the breeds I am interested in are genetically predesposed with DA or SSA. I will try my darnest to work around the DA/DR/SSA by having dogs of the opposite sex in the house, socialising the crap out of them with other dogs.

But I do know that genetics rule sometimes and I am prepared to work through it if I have to.

[ihartgonzo]

If I were a breeder? I would never breed an aggressive dog, period. Human OR dog aggressive.

People continue to prove that they cannot handle DA or HA dogs... it just doesn't work in our society. It makes the breed look awful. It's a danger to other people & animals. Of course, by HA, I mean unstable biters not trained protection dogs.

I don't think it would compromise the breed at all, in regards to APBTs. There are plenty of superbly friendly, amazing working dogs in the world. This is not a breed that is lacking gene pools or breeders. It is simply lacking a majority of GOOD breeders. To me, reputable APBT breeders should absolutely be focused on breeding only human and dog friendly specimens, in order to restore the reputation and integrity of the breed. Cull all dogs who exhibit any signs of aggression (by that I mean alter them), and if certain lines are producing a lot of DA dogs, switch it up.

[ihartgonzo]

So... I just now read through all of the thread, and there are some interesting points. Having met/worked with/played with thousands of APBTs from all kinds of backgrounds though, I have met maaaanyyy who were 100% dog friendly. The majority in fact. They were no less Pit Bull. They were no less drivey, playful, or hilarious. Dog aggression does not define this breed like the eye defines Border Collies. It was bred INTO this breed by sick individuals over the last 100 years, why can't it be bred out? It is a fault in the breed, so why not work to correct it? (Yes. I do consider dog aggression a fault. Not "just because it's inconvenient for the owners"... because it is unhealthy for dogs to want to kill other dogs. I would never hate a dog for it, but naturally a dog should be social with other dogs. It is healthier for the dog mentally and safer physically.) I don't expect it to disappear tomorrow, but at least TRY! This isn't a rare breed after all.

I know an amazing APBT breeder who selects her dogs for excellent health, drive, confo and temperament. Temperament includes being friendly & reliable with other dogs. I'm considering getting a puppy from her next litter. I'm not going to abandon my dog if they turn out DA, I'm going to manage the situation, but I'm hoping that my puppy will be as dog social as his parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. The odds are much better that he's going to be dog friendly than if I got a puppy from two dog aggressive parents.