Breeding out DA

[Dekka]

Originally Posted by ihartgonzo

Wow... I don't know why my posts are being picked at and attacked with such rudeness.

I I'm sure their owners wouldn't appreciate being told that their dogs aren't as drivey or don't have that "spark" because they aren't DA.

I think you are missing the point. I was thinking on this. Kat wasn't DA or even really DR and wow she had drive and spark. However her lines DO have DA and DR (like her mom...) The point is is that breeding for one trait often changes others. So the same things that make a sharp drivey dog can also make a sharp reactive dog.

[adojrts]

Originally Posted by Dekka

Here is a question.. IS there a breeder who breeds nice correct APBT with appropriate drive where they are all dog friendly (like labs)? Or is this a theoretical breeder?

I ask because every breeder of super dog friendly JRTs I know (not many, mostly bybs) all have dogs with little to no drive. The super dog friendly rescues I have had have coincidentally had 0 prey drive.

Then you need to get out more and meet those types of Jrts, MY dogs are super friendly to people and to other dogs, jrts and non jrts and considering that my dogs have tons of drive and actually do hunt and hunt very well that blows that out of the water. Even Petie who is fear aggressive to strange large dogs when give a chance to meet those dogs...........is fine with them and does play with them. Now tell me just how much have you hunted with your dogs to be such an expert on drives and hunting? Ever actually have a dog do the job? Enter, locate and work quarry? and not a schooling where the sette is opened up and the dog can see day light? Doubtful

[CharlieDog]

I rofled HARD at pointy eared sewer rat. Knox will have a new nickname from now on as well.

I generally agree with the sentiment that to take that away is to change the breed. And I would not be happy with a golden retriever in a pointy eared sewer rat body.

Also, ado, those are some pretty strong words, but I would have to say from my experience with jrts in my area that the driver dogs are more prone to snarkyness and the ones that seem to love everyone are less drivey. Granted I'm sure these are all byb dogs, and dogs from the petstore, but still the point stands. Your dogs seem to be an anomaly amongst jrts. Every breeder website I've seen who is worth their salt strongly cautions against dog parks and warns that their dogs might be DA or DR to a degree. Not one has said their dogs gets along with every dog they meet if properly introduced.

[Fran101]

and to all the lovely golden retriever owners out there.. just chiming in to say that the golden temperament in itself is AWESOME for goldens. and just because some people prefer breeds with different temperament doesn't mean they don't like goldens or think that the temperament in itself is a bad thing

Just throwing that out there because I know it sucks to kind of have your breed be used as an adjective/example of "incorrect" or "bad" temperaments and traits in these kinds of threads but really, it's not meant as a negative thing, just as a good example of a temperament that is the polar opposite of what certain breeds strive for/are described as.
Not bad, just different

Goldens are awesome
and cute too

Carry on

[Panzerotti]

Originally Posted by Fran101

and to all the lovely golden retriever owners out there.. just chiming in to say that the golden temperament in itself is AWESOME for goldens. and just because some people prefer breeds with different temperament doesn't mean they don't like goldens or think that the temperament in itself is a bad thing

Great point Fran. My parents' had a Golden that was the most amazing dog ever. He was a therapy dog that made a lot of people's lives better.

I just prefer a-hole dogs with the opposite of a Golden temperament.

[adojrts]

CD, why are those strong words? Those are valid questions, and please keep in mind that I have good reason to ask those questions when I know actually have a good idea what the answer is. Yes Jrts can be edgy but is that because of all the warnings and not breeding for good temperaments? I know a lot of breeders that have to be very careful with their dogs bc of DA, but I also happen to know that they don't give a fig about temperament either. So why can't you have both, high drive and no DA? It is possible.

[CharlieDog]

Hmm, just seemed a bit harsh. Text doesn't always transfer so well. But looking at the apbt you can have the most amazing temperament in a dog, one who would do anything you asked of it at all, and still have a dog who does not like other dogs whatsoever.

I know it is entirely possible to have high drive and no DA, I know quite a few really nice Labradors who are not quite field lines but also not show that do hunt, and they are awesome lovely dogs (I don't care for their looks but that's me ) and I myself have Knox who is frequently compared to Malinois in terms of drive at this point and he is perfectly capable of going to daycare and socializing with all manner of other dogs without issue. (Except JRTs actually lol, they all hate him with a passion for some reason. )

[adojrts]

CD, I can't comment on APBT, I don't own one. The ones I have known were nice dogs and were owned by good ppl and I know they were careful of the DA.
Now Jrts, drives, hunting with them, breeding them, competing at countless jrt trials (often 2/3 trials each month, 10 hrs away) for many years and knowing so many of them and doing rescue with them, that is a different story. Knowing lines, researching, having excellent mentors, friends with a lot of breeders and working terrier people............and I also don't consider myself to be a working terrier breeder...........even with hunting several times a year for 12 yrs now (only missed a couple of years when I was sick) and hunting with every dog I have owned except for one.

[ravennr]

I think it's great when someone's dogs aren't DA and have all the qualities desired in the breed. However, if it's just a fluke, you can't really compare it to specifically, purposely breeding for DA to not be present. That distinction is important. I still haven't seen any valid reasoning or evidence of why breeding out DA is a good idea, or even that it's actually truly possible.

[Teal]

Originally Posted by Dekka

Here is a question.. IS there a breeder who breeds nice correct APBT with appropriate drive where they are all dog friendly (like labs)? Or is this a theoretical breeder?

I ask because every breeder of super dog friendly JRTs I know (not many, mostly bybs) all have dogs with little to no drive. The super dog friendly rescues I have had have coincidentally had 0 prey drive.

The breeder my dog Zealand is from breeds cold dogs. I don't know if they are ABSOLUTELY, unequivocally dog friendly but they get along among themselves in situations that would cause fights between most APBTs (multiple dogs on a spring pole, fetching a stick, etc.) Her dogs are ADBA conformation champions, weight pull champions, and agility competitors (they just started agility, so I'm sure the titles will start rolling in lol) Her dogs also have a lot of drive in general... They are very active on the flirt pole and spring pole, and so far my dog from there has a ton of drive. He's still a puppy, so his level of DA is undetermined as of yet.