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  #21  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:19 PM
~Tucker&Me~ ~Tucker&Me~ is offline
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Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the traits attributed to 'working' and 'performance' breeders are just bad breeding ethics, NOT a type of breeder problem. Spy is performance bred and settles incredibly well. He's almost always asleep in the house.

If a performance breeder is breeding dogs who can't settle, she is a BAD BREEDER, not a 'performance' breeder.
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:25 PM
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This.

Stockdogs are, IMO, going the same way you describe bird dogs. There are your immensely talented trial dogs who would not do a lick of good on a farm, and there are terrific farm dogs who wouldn't be spectacular in trials. There's a spllit even in the stockdog breeds between performance/trial dogs and just working farm dogs.
I think this is the same in any sort of working breed. Terriers who win at earth dog competitions aren't often the ones you want to hunt with. And the careful working dog will never do will in competition. Working protection dogs vs schutzhund dogs. Sure there will be over lap but one does not equal the other in any sort of breed that I can think of.

As for what I would get.. for me I agree I don't think breeders should focus solely on one thing. Ie if you working dogs aren't great pets what are you going to do with the ones that don't work well enough. You also need health, and a stable temperament. Same goes for sport breeders, the traits that make your breed awesome are ones you should be testing for (hunting, herding etc)
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  #23  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:18 PM
SpicyBulldog SpicyBulldog is offline
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Good post Dekka. I agree, I want a dog that's good in the house, can calm down.

Though in some breeds its viewed as normal by some that the breed doesn't settle so much. Like Malinois, though I've known some which settle fine (show lines), map in the house, lay on the couch with the kids. Known some sport dogs / working lines that were not pacing, neurotic crazies when not working. A lot of are not selecting for off the job pet personality. I can't fault them exactly (though I agree with your post) as dealing with particular traits they don't want to comprise intensity, drive, ect.
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  #24  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post

As for what I would get.. for me I agree I don't think breeders should focus solely on one thing. Ie if you working dogs aren't great pets what are you going to do with the ones that don't work well enough. You also need health, and a stable temperament. Same goes for sport breeders, the traits that make your breed awesome are ones you should be testing for (hunting, herding etc)

What makes a dog a great pet depends largely on what the pet owner wants though. I have known people who liked all sorts of things in their dogs. The person who returned my oldest Belgian to the breeder for "temperament problems" got another Belgian afterwards. He once was telling me how this dog is just so great because when people come over, she hides under the table the whole time unlike my dog who was just obnoxious and always bothering their guests.
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  #25  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ~Tucker&Me~ View Post
Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the traits attributed to 'working' and 'performance' breeders are just bad breeding ethics, NOT a type of breeder problem.
Gotta agree with this. Good health and stable temperaments I feel should be #1

Not all pets are cut out to be sports/working dogs, but all working/sports dogs need to be able to be pets.. kind of thing. For most homes/breeds anyway.

I understand wanting to breed for better working/sport traits (faster dogs, more drive etc..) but I don't think that other important things should be sacrificed.. I think THAT is a sign of a bad breeder. Putting ribbons, scores and endurance over basics like health and temperament.
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:03 PM
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Working to me means the dog does something in exchange for it's upkeep first and foremost. The police K9 does a job in exchange for being able to be a police dog, just as the MWD does a job in exchange for his room, medical, and board. A hound that doesn't hunt is of little use to the houndsman, just as the collie with no prey drive is of little use to the sheep herder. The ability to do task needed is more important than the joy of owning the dog.

Performance to me means pet with a side of ribbon/title chasing. If the dog doesn't compete well it's more often than not - not a deal breaker- but it may be part of the selection criteria for the next generation. The task is not more important than the dog in most cases.

To me there is no right/wrong in this. There is nothing wrong with having a pet - I do think people are fooling themselves/others in what they consider a "working dog." Worrying sheep in a round pen on the weekends or even trialing once a week doesn't make a dog a working dog. A therapy dog title doesn't make a dog from working bloodlines.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:05 PM
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He once was telling me how this dog is just so great because when people come over, she hides under the table the whole time unlike my dog who was just obnoxious and always bothering their guests.
Um wow. Thats all I can say.
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  #28  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:19 PM
SpicyBulldog SpicyBulldog is offline
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Hmmm Kat that is interesting view too.

Also how many hound breeders find those that don't make the cut a pet home? If a failure isn't going to be a pet its irrelevant that it has a pet temperament. The other pups will be kept given, traded or sold to other hunters from the start.

Seems like it depends then. I'd say that most performance breeders should keep pet temperament in mind. I also think that people need to be able to handle everything else that goes with their pet. The drive, energy level, ect Breeding dogs who can live in the home is one thing but then people expect the dog to act mellow all the time. A lot of working breeds are given up because the owner can't handle them even though they can settle.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
Working to me means the dog does something in exchange for it's upkeep first and foremost. The police K9 does a job in exchange for being able to be a police dog, just as the MWD does a job in exchange for his room, medical, and board. A hound that doesn't hunt is of little use to the houndsman, just as the collie with no prey drive is of little use to the sheep herder. The ability to do task needed is more important than the joy of owning the dog.

Performance to me means pet with a side of ribbon/title chasing. If the dog doesn't compete well it's more often than not - not a deal breaker- but it may be part of the selection criteria for the next generation. The task is not more important than the dog in most cases.

To me there is no right/wrong in this. There is nothing wrong with having a pet - I do think people are fooling themselves/others in what they consider a "working dog." Worrying sheep in a round pen on the weekends or even trialing once a week doesn't make a dog a working dog. A therapy dog title doesn't make a dog from working bloodlines.
I agree completely. The working dogs I know are actually working dogs. This is why I ended up with Seren, she didn't hunt right off the bat the way the breeder had hoped.
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2012, 01:35 PM
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...going by the topic & not reading all posts......DA is NOT a recessive gene, wise breeding can put some forms of DA into a dormant state, but never forever, and not permanently. DA, if a dog possess' this traight, will always exist, it just has to be managed.
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