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  #21  
Old 10-24-2011, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
Umm.... Lewis County SAR has two on their team. One of them is worked by their training officer. She prefers lighter colored dogs working in the field and couldn't find any breeders she liked with light shepherds (her oldster that just retired was a very light silver) so she went with a white because the whites being bred now are pretty consistent.
Send pictures and a pedigree. I'd love to see working dogs generation to generation.
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Are they allowed by the white GSD rules to breed in regular coloured GSDs from time to time? That would be ideal (but likely makes too much sense to be happening)
White GSDs are just GSDs according to AKC registration. There is a huge divide in the breed between people who want them to be an accepted color of the GSD and people who want to split them into a separate breed. A lot of crossing to American Showlines went on with wGSDs for awhile because the breeders involved wanted the more show type dog. Dare I say that crossing to American Showlines is not a great way to enhance drive and solid nerves consistently in the breed. That is the direction the majority of wGSD breeders seem to want to go in though. A lot of other ones are breeding huge white GSDs for pets. If there is a population of working wGSDs, it is a small one. I have seen one webpage of a breeder in Europe who does SchH with his whites. Compared to hundreds upon hundreds who do SchH with their standard colored GSDs.

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Originally Posted by NicoleLJ View Post
You told me to show you some that are working because you said they can't and don;t. I proved with just one link and one breeder that she has consitantly bred working dogs to go on to work in multiple fields. So you have to find some way to degrade that because it proves you wrong.
The Hoofprint dogs don't do SchH or HGH herding and that is the standard that working GSDs are judged against. Just because there's a few dogs on a police force doesn't mean a lot either. Many police forces take whatever dogs are donated to them and make do. It isn't right or good but that is the way it works.

I don't say this to try to knock wGSDs at all. I don't think there is anything wrong with wGSDs, they are what they are. The major market for them has been as pets for so long that it has effected the type of dog that is generally produced. Now many breeders of them are very show oriented. It doesn't make them bad dogs and if the OP is looking for a good pet, there are plenty of wGSD breeders she could go to. Which is why I asked what they were interested in.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
White GSDs are just GSDs according to AKC registration. There is a huge divide in the breed between people who want them to be an accepted color of the GSD and people who want to split them into a separate breed. A lot of crossing to American Showlines went on with wGSDs for awhile because the breeders involved wanted the more show type dog. Dare I say that crossing to American Showlines is not a great way to enhance drive and solid nerves consistently in the breed. That is the direction the majority of wGSD breeders seem to want to go in though. A lot of other ones are breeding huge white GSDs for pets. If there is a population of working wGSDs, it is a small one. I have seen one webpage of a breeder in Europe who does SchH with his whites. Compared to hundreds upon hundreds who do SchH with their standard colored GSDs.
I agree that you need to add 'better' but what you or I might determine is better is not what they would.

I was more wondering if the breed of white GSDs (I knew they had broken off into their own breed) was completely closed or not.
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:35 AM
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Basicallly I see it like this. A good dog can come from anywhere and be any color. GSD's have been bred to a standard that has developed a working dog known world wide for it's temperment, courage, nerve, strength and trainability. Breeders that still adhere to this standard, still produce the medium sized working dog that built this reputation.

Then you have other breeders that use a standard i theory, but their dogs haven't passed a fairly administered test in generations, and they focus on other things like coat color or how they trot.

Then you have other breeders that follow no standard at all, or breed for out of standard stuff, and you're hard pressed to find quality dogs in those litters with any regularity. Sure some pop up now and again, but there's no consistency, other than substandard dogs.

GSD's have been a breed for a little over 100 years and almost from the inception of the stud books and breed standard, White has been against the standard all over the world. The US allowed it for showing for a while, but everywhere else those breeding for white, were breeding for color and out of standard dogs.

in 10 years you can have huge shifts when you breed away from a standard, you can imagine what would happenn in 100 years.

Nobody is culling a lot of dogs today, they're worth too much money. white dogs aren't being born the world over and being killed without a word to hide a secret.

There's a few dogs i've seen linked that are white and working, but a lot have been dogs that have been dead for years. A handful of dogs in the world doesn't really scream of equal ability to me. Not when we had more dogs titled this past summer than i've seen white dogs titled on the internet in a decade.
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  #25  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:02 AM
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Successful is subjective, to me being successful in flyball is running under 6 seconds and clean on a team and being a breed (on a breed level) people seek for the sport.

There are the only two wGSD doing flyball with U-Fli:

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White German Shepherd
RUN Dog Jumps Club Singles Points Title
4256 Lucky 12" 4 Dog Flight 5.626 12135 TFP-I
1414 Teez 12" Ballistics 6460 TFE-II
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Similarly, I personally know a few off breeds that are very successful in obedience in the fact they even can do it at all however when seeking my next sporting obedience dog I will seek a dog that will give me the edge with the ability to hold their focus and drive through high stress and offer me quick and sharp movements when asked.

Same goes for agility, sch, and so forth. I'm not saying wGSD can't do anything, I'm sure they can do anything, but to call them successful is in fact subjective and some people have higher standards.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a wGSD at any of my DD or SD competitions nor on the record books.


Excelling as a pet, I hear they do that very well actually which is *vital* however, if I were to recommend someone to a dog for competitive sport or work I wouldn't pick a breed that hasn't shown itself as a strong competitor.
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  #26  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:07 AM
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OK I will say it one more time. Those are not the only working dogs she has produced. She has produced many many more. Those are just the ones she chose to put on that page. Kat said that you won't find working wGSD's. If you do it is a novelty. With just one link, showing one breeders dogs I proved her wrong. Just one breeder in many many breeders. But because I proved her wrong my words are being twisted to saying that she only produced 19 working dogs in 40yrs which is far from the truth.

But I can see how this will go easily. And Doug and I knew it would when I posted the link last night. It is the same way it goes every time this debate comes up and their are people that still believe the crap about whites. I post a link proving their statements as wrong so they will twist and turn that into anything they can. I could sit here and post link after link of sch. trained dogs, police, military and so I. I and others have done it many times over the years. But it always ends up the same way. The people posting the old falisies will continue to believe what they want. So I will post no more. Like I said eariler the people who truely know and love the whites know that they are a working breed with the same abilities as a colored GSD AS LONG as you look for the right lines. Plain and simple. So continue to believe what you want. Makes no difference to me.

Dekka, The stud books for the Berger Blanc Suisses are closed now and they are now considered a seperate breed.
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Successful is subjective, to me being successful in flyball is running under 6 seconds and clean on a team and being a breed (on a breed level) people seek for the sport.

There are the only two wGSD doing flyball with U-Fli:
.


When Sheena was competing in Flyball her standard time was 5.2 seconds and she was consistant at that. wGSDs excel at just about anything. They are excellent Service Dogs for the disabled, police dogs, military dogs, SAR dogs, detection dogs, you name it they can excell at it if you look for the right lines. That is the main key. They are not just a pet, though just like the majority of any breed of dog out there, most are pets. This is a working breed of dog and is happiest doing a job.

Anyway I am out of this now. I don't like reading falisies about my breed because it gets my back up and I get very defensive reading the old falsehoods being spread about them when I know this breed is not what some state. So you all contiue to believe what you do. I will also and we can go on our merry way.
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:15 AM
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Why haven't the whites continued to show in schutzhund trials or mondio or the K-9 trials?

Are they not ideal for protection sport such as the colored dogs? I am genuinely curious, there is nothing wrong with it, why is that a divide between white and color coated GSD?

Also I am sure they compete but I don't see them in any of the sports I frequent, I just have trouble considering them sporting dogs when I don't see them actively sporting (nor in the reports).
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:16 AM
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Did you see a lot of wGSD in NAFA? Unfortunately NAFA doesn't share their breed stats online.
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Basicallly I see it like this. A good dog can come from anywhere and be any color. GSD's have been bred to a standard that has developed a working dog known world wide for it's temperment, courage, nerve, strength and trainability. Breeders that still adhere to this standard, still produce the medium sized working dog that built this reputation.

Then you have other breeders that use a standard i theory, but their dogs haven't passed a fairly administered test in generations, and they focus on other things like coat color or how they trot.

Then you have other breeders that follow no standard at all, or breed for out of standard stuff, and you're hard pressed to find quality dogs in those litters with any regularity. Sure some pop up now and again, but there's no consistency, other than substandard dogs.

GSD's have been a breed for a little over 100 years and almost from the inception of the stud books and breed standard, White has been against the standard all over the world. The US allowed it for showing for a while, but everywhere else those breeding for white, were breeding for color and out of standard dogs.

in 10 years you can have huge shifts when you breed away from a standard, you can imagine what would happenn in 100 years.

Nobody is culling a lot of dogs today, they're worth too much money. white dogs aren't being born the world over and being killed without a word to hide a secret.

There's a few dogs i've seen linked that are white and working, but a lot have been dogs that have been dead for years. A handful of dogs in the world doesn't really scream of equal ability to me. Not when we had more dogs titled this past summer than i've seen white dogs titled on the internet in a decade.
Thank you, this post explains things very well. I don't claim to know much (anything?) about wGSD's but this make a lot of sense.
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