Border Collie People

[mrose_s]

Originally Posted by Lizmo

After reading through your post, this is the best advice!

I did/do this with Blaze. So many people ask me why I just let him sit there and whine, whimper, or bark. Isn't that mean, is the question people pose. I always tell them "Being in the crate or tethered up isn't physically hurting him in ANY way. If he would like to throw a tantrum about it, that's his problem." He would throw tantrums when younger about being tethered while watching other dogs work. A trainer told me at the beginning of the weekend to just ignore him and let him see that, after he had thrown that tantrum, he was perfectly okay! By the end of that weekend, he had improved ALOT and it stuck with him.

I might stop worrying about Quinn with this, she throws tantrums when watching other dogs work so I usually tie her back where she can't see or play LAT, maybe I should just let her work it out on her own...

[Lizmo]

Originally Posted by PitBullLove

When I put her in the outside kennel, she ruined the chain link, pushed the door out, dug a few holes, scratched the house, chewed the dog houses, and climbed the kennel and tore the tarp cover apart. This is all in an hour. If that. I now have to use a chain and bungee cords to close this very expensive outdoor kennel. I feel like I need to start taking a Xanax every day when I come home, lol.

I would put her on a 4/5ft lead that is tethered to the inside of the outdoor kennel. While I do understand she's an 8 month old pup from who knows what kind of parents and doesn't really have a stable 'person' to call her own, she does really need to learn to just chill. She sounds like she is learning, somewhat, since you said she understands when you walk in the room that she needs to be quiet.

Also, what is her personality like? Do you think letting your older dog correct her would go okay? Sometimes a correction from an older dog does more than we ever could hope for. But if you don't think she would submit to a correction from another dog, that probably wouldn't be the best thing to try.

[stardogs]

One thing that jumped out at me is that you're going back to her while crated to "correct" - in MANY cases this can actually reinforce the barking because the dog is getting attention, even if it's not positive. For dogs who don't have a lot of positive human interaction, they will take anything they can get.

Similarly, by waiting until you can't stand the barking anymore before moving her to the outdoor kennel, you're actually building the barking up - she knows she can barkbarkbarkbark for an hour and then you'll come and touch her and maybe even talk to her on the way out to the kennel.

I might try either kenneling her outside from the get go so you can completely ignore the barking or start moving her out much sooner so you start reinforcing shorter barking sessions instead of super long ones.

[RD]

Originally Posted by stardogs

One thing that jumped out at me is that you're going back to her while crated to "correct" - in MANY cases this can actually reinforce the barking because the dog is getting attention, even if it's not positive. For dogs who don't have a lot of positive human interaction, they will take anything they can get.

Similarly, by waiting until you can't stand the barking anymore before moving her to the outdoor kennel, you're actually building the barking up - she knows she can barkbarkbarkbark for an hour and then you'll come and touch her and maybe even talk to her on the way out to the kennel.

I might try either kenneling her outside from the get go so you can completely ignore the barking or start moving her out much sooner so you start reinforcing shorter barking sessions instead of super long ones.

Read and re-read this! Right now you are teaching her endurance training for her obnoxious barking. Never ever ever let her out when she's barking. Extinguish it now and forever. Pop a xanax or put in earplugs and do yoga, but wait until that dog has had a few breaths of quiet before you start heading to her room to let her out. If she barks when she sees you, turn around and leave and try again. Only quiet dogs get let out of the crate/kennel. She cannot bark forever, even though it may seem like it.

[Shai]

Originally Posted by RD

She cannot bark forever, even though it may seem like it.

And it probably will seem like it. Webster marathon barked for 8 hours straight once, when we first got him...pretty sure he only stopped because his voice was hurting...

Worked though.

[Fran101]

Wax ear plugs are the best!

[Laurelin]

RD's got a great post.

With extremely busy dogs you need to focus less on wearing them out and more on teaching them to be calm and self-entertain in a way that is positive for you.

Mia will go all day- I've seen her tired only a handful of times. She is also a loudmouth and very demanding. If you give in to her, she'll just keep on getting louder and louder and keep on being more and more hyper. Eventually you just can't give in. It takes TIME in my experience and patience. I will say Mia is still easily wound up HIGH pretty fast. Just this morning she had it in her head that we were going to play ball. She starts her zooming routine and shrieking (she's gotten much worse since living with people that cave to her). I should've video'ed it. It was pretty overwhelming even though she's a tiny thing. I ignored her completely and guess what? She stopped.

Her first few months I swear were constant screaming , chewing, and barking. The first night she barked all night literally. She barked for hours in her crate the first two weeks every single time. She's gotten MUCH better. I tethered her to me when she wasn't kenneled and kept a lot of treats with me and rewarded what I wanted. She's still not a CALM dog by any means but she'll chill pretty well or entertain herself in ways I don't mind. It was pretty much a constant job of teaching her what was okay and what was not. Not micro-managing but rather just being firm and rewarding the positive. Don't get me wrong, do exercise her, just don't expect to wear her completely out. I think a lot just comes down to maturity, honestly.

I don't think it's a breed thing. Some puppies are just really difficult. And some dogs are just really tightly wound.

[PitBullLove]

Thank you everyone. I took a video of her training progress I'll have to upload and post soon. She's such a goof ball, she learned very quickly from only a few corrections to NOT bark at dinnertime but instead run to her crate and wait. She spices it up from hopping from a sit to a down, sit, down, sit, down, to contain her excitement. Same thing when I get home and go to let her out of the outside kennel. She will wait her turn, BUT she can't hold a sit, she has to transition from a sit to a down and back up again constantly. She's a nut. But our progress has paid off! Today the dogs were out after I got home and I went outside and called for them, and everyone came, except Darla (she likes to go out and explore the woods with a ball in her mouth 24/7, I never worry, we don't live by a busy road and there are no major threats to the dogs here, besides at night there is some wildlife, closest neighbors are a ways through the woods or my uncles house), so I went inside, gave everyone treats, and get a call from my uncle fifteen minutes later (he lives down the same driveway as me, the same neck of the woods so he passes my house to get to his house) and he tells me, "You've got a dog on the porch,". I'm like HUH? No way. Darla would be having a fit. Sure enough, I open the door and there she is. RELAXED. Waiting. SILENTY. No torn apart screens, and no high pitched screaming.

Originally Posted by stardogs

For dogs who don't have a lot of positive human interaction, they will take anything they can get.

Similarly, by waiting until you can't stand the barking anymore before moving her to the outdoor kennel, you're actually building the barking up - she knows she can barkbarkbarkbark for an hour and then you'll come and touch her and maybe even talk to her on the way out to the kennel.

Thank you for your advice, and I wanted to respond to this by saying Darla is NOT attention deprived. She gets just as much attention as my other dogs do. She gets A LOT of positive human interaction.