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Old 09-25-2011, 02:00 PM
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Default What is the right breeder worth?

I found a great breeder I really like. Even though I'm not in a position to get another dog (in school) I'm still browsing, finding ones I like, ones I don't, etc.

This breeder is... interesting. Intense, haha, but in a way I like. There's no one in my family/friends I can talk to about this because they would stop listening after hearing the price!

What is the right breeder worth? Did you have to jump through hoops with a breeder? Did the breeder you went through have special requirements (the one I'm looking at requires a 3 day visit when you pick up the pup, which I have not heard of with other breeders, but isn't exactly a bad thing)? Were they far way (I'm in NH, they're in California, feels like the other side of the world!)? What would you be willing to do?

I haven't seen their contract yet, and I know that will impact a LOT. I already know I won't sign a contract stating I MUST neuter (but I may sign a no breeding contract). I won't sign a contract saying that they can take back the dog at any time, for any reason, etc.

What did you go through? Or if you are a breeder, what do you require of potential buyers?
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:28 PM
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The right breeder is worth everything to me! I met my breeder last yr, and do not plan to get a pup from her till 2013. I would not say she made me jump through hoops, but she did request alot of info and it is very important to her that we build a relationship before her dog is even bred. This is very important to me as well, and we have started building a wonderful friendship! This person will be in my life for the life of my dog...most likely much much longer. She is there for me to support me, offer me advice ect, she is family now. So..to me a great breeder is the whole world!!
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:35 PM
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The right breeder is worth everything to me! I met my breeder last yr, and do not plan to get a pup from her till 2013. I would not say she made me jump through hoops, but she did request alot of info and it is very important to her that we build a relationship before her dog is even bred. This is very important to me as well, and we have started building a wonderful friendship! This person will be in my life for the life of my dog...most likely much much longer. She is there for me to support me, offer me advice ect, she is family now. So..to me a great breeder is the whole world!!
That is definitely a beautiful way of putting it!
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:52 PM
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all depends really , for me a great breeder will health test and do a basic background to make sure the pup and i are a right match. beyond that , if i never hear from them again its cool and if they want to informally chat a couple times a year , that is cool also.


But the crazy contracts , turn me off completly , like the rescue thread going , there are some breeders are just ridculas.
i will never sign an agreement about fences , crates , food , reproductive rights , or even rehoming. once i pay for that dog it is mine. there will be no one else to have a say in any way.

Contracts are the debil and i hate them. i know in todays world they are a necessary evil .
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
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Right breeder, right puppy/dog, right pedigree, right contract, sane price. It is really like the stars aligning.

I can't tell you how many deals I had fall apart on a detail or three on the purchase of my last dog. Cute puppy-exceptional sire - too high of a COI - walked away, nice dog/exceptional pedigree - insane terms on the contract - walked away, good contract terms, young puppy, too high of a price for the risk taken - walked away. The list goes on... and on.

I came to terms with awhile ago with what I would and would not put up with in a contract, what a reasonable price would be depending on a pedigree and age of the dog (uncommon desirable pedigree and older age to age six being worth more than a 8 week old puppy from very commonly used lines). I also came to terms with what I would and would not put up with in a pedigree (I will not linebreed or purchase heavily linebred purebred dogs) and lines and line combos I avoid. I decided what titles were important to me, and what made no difference to my decision at all.

Price to me does matter but only in the sense of how much risk to gain there is for a potential puppy/dog. Personally my preferance is a green dog about 8-18 months old for my purposes. Less risk and more understanding of what exactly you are buying into. These dogs should cost more - because they are less crapshoot than an 8 week old. But again, this is for my purposes which isn't exactly the same as a normal pet buyer.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:49 PM
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Basic terms of my contracts:

Spay/Neuter by 6 months. Although if a responsible dog savvy person came up to me and laid out the reasons they did not want to alter at that age and wanted to wait until the dog was mature, I would be more than happy to work something out.

Limited registration on pet puppies. Non negotiable.

Non Breeding contract with most show puppies. If someone I knew was a breeder and a good one, I would be happy to not sign a non breeding contract. Contract could/would be lifted upon Ch title (or Working), and health testing passed.

Dogs come back to me if they need to be re homed. No exceptions.

I reserve the right for 2nd pick puppy (from first or second litter) should a bitch I bred ever be bred.

If the dog is not fed a premium kibble or proper raw diet then the health guarantee is void.

If the dog is neglected or miss treated I WILL repossess the dog. Period.

I dont like tie outs as a dogs only form of containment, but I realise that sometimes they have to be. No fence is not a reason someone won't get a puppy from me. I dont feal a clause saying the dog can not be tied up ever is enforceable or reasonable. What if the family goes camping, ect... I do say that a dog should not be left outside tied up unattended.

I will not be responsible for temperament problems that arise. I will do my best to breed sound individuals but I can not control the socialisation (or lack there of) after a puppy leaves me.

Owners MUST inform me if/when they move and their new address, phone numbers and email (If changed)


Every contract is slightly different and everything is some what negotiable depending on the person/dog. Also if you do not have similar ideas on dogs as a breeder you should probably not be getting a dog from them, as it will only cause potential problems down the road.


I do not sell pet/show potential pups at 8 weeks old for different prices. Dobes are cropped/docked the only exceptions is if the health/size of the pup does not support cropping.

I sell my puppies for around the same price as every one else in the area
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:12 PM
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What do you mean by "right breeder"? Or rather, what's "right" about them? Their personality? Their ethics? The dogs they produce?

I would never sign the typical contract you see coming out of show breeders. Def no spueter contract, no feeding instructions, must give the dog back/breeder can come take the dog, etc. I would agree to first buy back rights and few other minimal terms, but that's it.

Now, if they were producing dogs I really couldn't find anywhere else, I might be willing to bend on certain things (though not on others). There's a breeder of Beaucerons who produces some of the only Beaucerons that actually work (some of them) in ringsport in the US. If I ever get a Beauc, it will be from her. Don't like her contract but as it doesn't hit my "absolutely non-negotiable" spots, I'd probably still do it.

As for the breeder's personality, of course I want to buy from somebody who's upright and honest, and has a reputation of being helpful and professional. But honestly, my #1 priority is that the dogs are what I want/need, not whether the breeder and I agree on specifics of feeding/care or whatever.

What I am always and will always be willing to give is my time. I am always more than happy to sit down and have a real conversation with the breeder about their dogs and myself, and how we would work. IMO that's the best way to get a dog - not a puppy application followed by some excessive contract.

I dunno... I think I'm a **** good home for a dog. I do dog sports, I work with dogs professionally, I do tons of outdoors stuff. I don't think I should have to beg for a dog. I approach it as, "Hey, you've got a good dog and I've got a good home, let's talk." There's no reason I should have to do backflips into a headstand to get a pup.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennSLK View Post
Spay/Neuter by 6 months. Although if a responsible dog savvy person came up to me and laid out the reasons they did not want to alter at that age and wanted to wait until the dog was mature, I would be more than happy to work something out.

If the dog is neglected or miss treated I WILL repossess the dog. Period.

Every contract is slightly different and everything is some what negotiable depending on the person/dog. Also if you do not have similar ideas on dogs as a breeder you should probably not be getting a dog from them, as it will only cause potential problems down the road.

I sell my puppies for around the same price as every one else in the area
Is the spay/neuter contract for pet quality puppies only? Who determines if the dog is pet quality? (like, say you think the dog is pet quality or will never be a great show dog, but the owner differs and wants to show him) What if they wanted to keep the dog intact for its entire life, but never breed it?

Who defines what is neglect or mistreated? You or the law? What if I break my leg or am on bed rest for a month or two for whatever reason and my dog is getting minimal exercise for the time, is that neglect? What if you sell a pup (or do you?) to someone across the country, who pays for it to get back to you?

I have similar ideas as this breeder, but the pool of potential breeders is exceptionally small with a rarer breed, so I'm sure it's hard to find a perfect match.

I'm not trying to pick apart your contract, or say it isn't good. I'm just asking because I'm still trying to decide for myself what I'm willing to sign and what I'm not.

Ah. This breeder starts at more than I thought I was willing to spend. But I mean, if this dog lives to about 12 years, it's still only $15 a month.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily View Post
What do you mean by "right breeder"? Or rather, what's "right" about them? Their personality? Their ethics? The dogs they produce?.
Of the four I contacted with just general questions about the breed, they were the only ones that responded with more than 2 sentences. They have continued to answer my questions, and have been extremely helpful. They share my views on training (Most of the breeders I found talked about dominance theory and suggested alpha rollovers). They carefully match their dogs to working and pet homes. They breed dogs capable of work and true to temperament/nature. They ask thorough questions and care about where they place their dogs. They do health testing.

I just really like them.

The price is more than I thought I was willing to spend though, and they are far away so there won't be many reunions.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
Right breeder, right puppy/dog, right pedigree, right contract, sane price. It is really like the stars aligning.
This. It can be very hard to have everything mesh just right. I want a breeder that works & shows their dogs, who can show me how puppies in their lines have turned out. For example you all know my goal is to breed for pups from WGSD's that will be Service Dog prospects to donate. Well the breeder we are getting a pup from next fall shows and works her dogs and she has proven this not just by titles(which she had no problem showing me) but also videos. She also sent me info, pictures and so on of many of her pups that went on to show and do well or work. One of the pups is now an adult and is showing and doing well but the amazing thing is the dog is also a Guide dog and shown by her handler.

I am very particular on what I am looking for temperment wise so I want a breeder that doesn't suffer from kennel blindness and can match up temperments with the right homes. I also want a breeder that knows her own stock inside and out for health issues and has no problem sharing any issues from back in the lines and such. I also want a breeder who will ask questions not just give a price and ask if I will pay it. Who wants to know what the goals are for that puppy, what it;s diet will be, what it's living conditions will be and so forth.

Price for me is only important in that I will not pay exhorbant prices for a medium quallity dog. The one we are getting will cost $2000 and that includes shipping from Europe, FCI registration, shots and microchip along with crate and so on.

THe stars aligning quote is exactly what it is like. Personalities have to match. I will not jump through any hoops that I would not require my puppy adopters to jump through.
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