Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

[ACooper]

Originally Posted by Miakoda

.........I think many of us can raise our hands and say that we once felt overloaded and stressed with our animals at some point. And I think many of us have also owned dogs that just didn't click or we just didn't like all that much. But at no time are those situations an excuse for failing to provide the very basics of canine care.....such as food.

Not a dog, but remember Marty the parrot? I made a mistake bringing him home..........thought I could train the man hater out of him but I couldn't. He was a hazard to Kevin when he was loose, (drew blood more than once) he ended up spending more time in his cage than was fair (IMO) and I rehomed him last year. It broke my heart, I cried and cried.......but again, Kevin himself would NEVER have starved or abused Marty. He continued to talk to him each morning, give him a peanut before he left for work........right up to the day Marty went to his new home.

But that's the difference you see. Kevin is healthy, mentally and physically. Something is terribly wrong with anyone who would neglect ANY animal to the shape this pup was in.

Teal needs to seek help of some kind. A normal, compassionate, person......whether an animal lover or not, would not stand by and see an animal in need like that without caring and acting.

[yoko]

Originally Posted by Miakoda

I have to pipe in real quick.

First, I think I've been around long enough online that people know I don't "hide behind thinly veiled insults". I'm a very honest and open person, and I despise passive-aggressiveness. I will say what I mean, and mean what I say.


Second, I'm going to have to step up (and be the first and only?) and say that I have an issue with it being said that this puppy wasn't neglected intentionally. It most certainly was intentional. I'm not saying that there isn't a much larger issue at hand, as there very well is, but this dog wasn't what she wanted (or she didn't get enough fame and recognition for owning it), therefore she made the decision to not positively interact with this puppy or feed it as basic needs demand. Not only that, she was smart enough to start weaving a web of deception in order to justify the treatment of this puppy. I wholeheartedly believe she was planning on using this cover-up to hide the fate of the pup. That may less one to believe that there is a much larger issue with her, but it doesn't absolve her of blame for actions that were deliberate and calculated. Intentional.

The fact that this pup was again uprooted and rehomed and yet managed to immediately start gaining weight makes me immediately throw out the whole "the poor puppy was only just too stressed to eat, so Teal's not to blame".


I think many of us can raise our hands and say that we once felt overloaded and stressed with our animals at some point. And I think many of us have also owned dogs that just didn't click or we just didn't like all that much. But at no time are those situations an excuse for failing to provide the very basics of canine care.....such as food.

And another sad side effect is the increased hardship of potential owners being allowed to obtain a dog from a long-distance breeder. People, such as myself, might now be turned down because of actions by Teal and others like her.

No trust me I feel the same. This whole thing looks like she got tired of him and quit caring for even his basic needs. This thread looks like she wanted to set up a disappearance either ditch the dog somewhere or dropping at the shelter. I agree something is wrong with her but I don't agree this was something she didn't notice. It sounds like she noticed plenty and tried to set up a way to totally get rid of the dog. That's why she was so pissed when people found contact info for her.

I get some people are good people and stuff gets put of hand. But sometimes people are just bad and trying to justify it is people's way of trying to cope with the fact someone did something so inhumane it can't be explained.

[Red Chrome]

After spending a good chunk of time examining the date stamps on pictures, threads all over excluding the puppy, information given by her and little inconsistencies in things. I have to agree with Miakoda. I have done everything in my power to make sure this doesn't happen again to another dog. Whether people will listen or not is on them.

I truly wish Jairi would come back here and explain the situation or own up to it. But IME with people that do these things, they RUN, they disappear for awhile and then they pop up months later after they think people have forgotten about it.

I do wonder what happened to other dogs that disappeared. Especially those that there are no pictures of for a month before they went to their new homes. It makes me wonder what really happened to Clairece,Polaris,JP and the others.

Originally Posted by Miakoda

Second, I'm going to have to step up (and be the first and only?) and say that I have an issue with it being said that this puppy wasn't neglected intentionally. It most certainly was intentional.

I can't really speak for anyone per se, but I think some here (not you) are confusing "intentionally" with "maliciously." You can't really "unintentionally" not feed a pet until it's emaciated, unless you slip into a coma, but you can...well, some people can, anyway...neglect an animal to that point without realizing they've done it until it's too late, without spite or malice involved.

I'm honestly on the fence about that though, not just because of the terminology used ("the dog," "it," etc) but the fact that it seemed to have been used with some hatred behind it, not "just" detachment.

she was smart enough to start weaving a web of deception in order to justify the treatment of this puppy. I wholeheartedly believe she was planning on using this cover-up to hide the fate of the pup.

I agree. The fact of the matter is, she is clearly capable of comprehending that what happened to the puppy while in her care was wrong, because she took very intentional steps to create an alternate scenario.

And another sad side effect is the increased hardship of potential owners being allowed to obtain a dog from a long-distance breeder. People, such as myself, might now be turned down because of actions by Teal and others like her.

Maybe, or maybe not. You may have to spend even longer getting to know the breeder before they'll agree to sell you a dog if you don't already have one from them, or they may require more paperwork, but if someone is a qualified home (or rather "appears" to be a qualified home - you can know someone for years in person and still not really "know" them as well as you thought) I don't imagine it would be impossible or that you'd be turned down outright. I'd be happy if more breeders tightened up their placement process.

[Muttkip]

Originally Posted by Red Chrome

After spending a good chunk of time examining the date stamps on pictures, threads all over excluding the puppy, information given by her and little inconsistencies in things. I have to agree with Miakoda. I have done everything in my power to make sure this doesn't happen again to another dog. Whether people will listen or not is on them.

I truly wish Jairi would come back here and explain the situation or own up to it. But IME with people that do these things, they RUN, they disappear for awhile and then they pop up months later after they think people have forgotten about it.

I do wonder what happened to other dogs that disappeared. Especially those that there are no pictures of for a month before they went to their new homes. It makes me wonder what really happened to Clairece,Polaris,JP and the others.

And Goldfhysh and that Catahoula she has as well?

[Red Chrome]

Originally Posted by Muttkip

And Goldfhysh and that Catahoula she has as well?

And Touchstone,Lyric,Angus,Fairin and others.

[Barbara!]

Once again... There is NO NEED to bring up her other dogs. This thread is degrading itself.

[Psyfalcon]

Her other dogs show a pattern of behavior.

Getting dogs. Getting in over her head. Getting rid of them.

Plenty of reason to bring them up. If I were selling puppies, those other dogs on their own would be enough of a reason for me not to sell to her!

[yoko]

Originally Posted by Barbara!

Once again... There is NO NEED to bring up her other dogs. This thread is degrading itself.

All of it makes a case that she shouldn't even consider more dogs right now. People who actually care about placing their puppies should know things like this.

And honestly if you starve a dog I don't care about wanting to save your feelings more than I want to keep more dogs from going through that.

[Red Chrome]

Originally Posted by Psyfalcon

Her other dogs show a pattern of behavior.

Getting dogs. Getting in over her head. Getting rid of them.

Plenty of reason to bring them up. If I were selling puppies, those other dogs on their own would be enough of a reason for me not to sell to her!

Exactly. Except that those other dogs are never mentioned when purchasing puppies. Easier to obtain a puppy that way.

I have filled out a couple puppy applications recently and on each one, it asked, "How many dogs have you had?" "What happened to those dogs if they are no longer with you?" Or questions worded closely to that. I had a breeder call my references and verify my answers as well as call my vet. But even with these precautions in place, it is easy for people to lie and end up with a puppy from breeder. It sucks. You never truly know unless you dig for information. When I placed my GSD puppies, I googled everyone's name and searched for anything out of line concerning dogs in addition to home checks, multiple references and getting to know then people before. Things happen and it isn't a guarantee but it did help. A LOT.

Showing a pattern of behavior is part of warning future breeders of one of her future puppies. Unless she starts breeding her own.