Returning a dog to the breeder - Questions/Rant

[Linds]

Originally Posted by kady05

Yeah I did miss that.. although, 14 months is a long time IMO, even with a major surgery!

I'm just saying.. had any breeder I know had something like this happen, it wouldn't have been "swept under the rug". No way.

Well, considering the breeder has a website, I would assume she checks her email, for puppy inquires and such. But that's just me assuming. I know nothing about the breeder.. just that most breeders with websites and email info. on their websites check their email often.

Yes, I find it a strange and I would have liked it if it hadn't been kept quiet so long but I can also understand just wanting to move past it initially and get the dog into good hands and healthy. Then to have it in the back of your mind building and building to end up all coming out over a year later. I also get how people not really in the internet/computer world don't think of broadcasting it online.

One thing I've noticed is breeders do keep things tight to the vest sometimes even if it ends up hurting them.

It's one of the reasons I would really like to hear from the breeder.

That being said it doesn't really change anything.

ETA: My breeder has a website, a forum and a kennel facebook page. You would think he's computer savvy. So not the case. At all. Whatsoever. Pretty much to the point of being funny how not computer literate he is

[Renee750il]

Sometimes non-savvy breeders will barter things like website set-up for partial payment on a pup, so just because someone has a site, it doesn't necessarily follow that they bother with it much or have much of an online presence.

Fila breeders tend to stay within their own, and aren't much more social than their dogs -- unless you're talking Filas

[Psyfalcon]

I think this was mentioned, was the breeder attempting to bring neglect/abuse charges? If so, it might be smart to not go posting your evidence everywhere until your chances of getting charges runs out.

[Toller_08]

I don't really have anything to add to this thread other than that I don't feel it was up to the breeder to let the entire online world know what happened.

If my Doberman breeder ended up taking a puppy back in the awful condition that this puppy was in (and it most certainly was in terrible condition), chances are she would have told and warned other reputable Doberman breeders of the individual should they seek out another Doberman puppy. But unfortunately, should that same individual seek out a dog of another breed, that new breeder of the new breed would not know what happened prior unless they were to personally speak to my breeder or somehow got word of it from other Doberman breeders. That said, my breeder is not online savvy at all. Doesn't do FB, doesn't have a website, etc. She's retired from breeding now, but when she was still breeding, she got hundreds of e-mails a week and it was hard to keep up and e-mail everyone back. Between her own health ailments, her own dogs, her job, etc. But even so, I would imagine it would be fairly difficult to warn other dog people and breeders not in your chosen breed unless you were the type that knew how online dog forums worked or were at least Facebook savvy. So I don't think it's all that strange that she took a little bit to get back to RC and I definitely don't think it's strange that the situation was not announced publicly. I don't fault the breeder at all.

As for the rest of it: I don't know any of these people and while I'm not the first person to automatically believe a breeder after having dealt with one that looks reputable upon first glance but actually is rather decieving and dishonest, in this particular situation I think it's blatantly obvious that Teal did not like the puppy and I do not find it hard to imagine that the poor puppy did not recieve the care that it should have, so I tend to believe the breeder. The pictures she (Teal) herself posted show clearly to me that the puppy was not in good condition. A puppy should not look that thin and ribby and just overall unhealthy in a sit stay. I'd hate to see what a side profile photo instead would have showed that same day. I don't expect a Fila puppy to look as 'up' as other puppies, as Filas always kinda look a little sad to me (in a houndy way), but that puppy just does not look good regardless. Obviously none of us were there to witness anything in person, so I can't 100% say that Teal is guilty, but past things she's said and photos she's shared certainly have not helped to show that everything was ok while the puppy was in her care.

I hope this all gets sorted out somehow and that no other puppies end up in such condition again.

[Romy]

Here is Dianna's e-mail to me. I edited out her phone number just because it seems weird to post it on Chaz, but if anybody wants it or her e-mail just PM me and I'll forward it to you.

Here are two of the vet statements on his blood work up and condition. As to Jari, she has been to my home multiple times, met me at dog shows twice and spent hours with us, had my address not only from being here but from the internet web site where I have my home address listed. I have photos of her on my site, in my home as proof.

As I told her on the phone when she had the audacity to call me a couple of weeks ago, I told her I thought she was a "piece of @#$%".

She had a copy of the contract, she never paid me in full, I only care that my kid is in a GREAT home now. After two years of 'courting' us, I believed her when she said she would be a good home. There were only two calls to me, during the two months he was with her, where I did indeed speak to her. No messages, no unreturned calls.

If you find she is trying to purchase another dog, please forward my phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX to the breeders so they may talk to me personally.

Feel free to post the information and the text as you deem fit. If anyone has the desire to debate with me, please feel free to forward them my phone number and e-mail information. I have nothing to hide and everything to share. In 17 years of dog showing and training and activities, I have had two litters. If I never have a buyer like her again, I will be happy. I have a list of people who have been to my home, either to visit or as purchasers or re-homes, who have said I may forward their contact information so they may speak in private about me and my dogs and their dispositions, I will forward that information to anyone who doubts what I am saying.

Jari should not own dogs by the exhibit of what I saw from my puppy.

Thank you and best wishes,
Dianna
de la Luna

[Linds]

Thank you a ton Romy! I'm incredibly happy she got her dog back when she did.

[~Jessie~]

Know what's weird? According to a thread from another forum started on August 15th, she made no mention of wanting to get rid of this puppy:

<removed> no other forum posts

I'm wondering if something happened where she felt she needed to ditch the puppy ASAP, so she made up how she had been "trying" to contact the breeder. If the puppy was so awesome a few days before she made this thread, then why would she want to return him to the breeder?

She had 8 dogs in August 2011 but only had 3 by the time November rolled around. Makes me think that she was fishing for excuses to get rid of that puppy ASAP.

I also wonder if she couldn't afford dog food, thus how emaciated Bullseye was. If that dog was receiving even basic care (food, water), he would NOT have looked the way he did.

[Romy]

Originally Posted by ~Jessie~

Know what's weird? According to a thread from another forum started on August 15th, she made no mention of wanting to get rid of this puppy:



I'm wondering if something happened where she felt she needed to ditch the puppy ASAP, so she made up how she had been "trying" to contact the breeder. If the puppy was so awesome a few days before she made this thread, then why would she want to return him to the breeder?

She had 8 dogs in August 2011 but only had 3 by the time November rolled around. Makes me think that she was fishing for excuses to get rid of that puppy ASAP.

I just e-mailed Dianna back asking specifically if Jairi ever mentioned needing to return him. Will post her reply.

[~Jessie~]

Oh, and Romy, thanks for sharing Dianna's email and those vet records. It solidifies everything I've been thinking thus far

[~Jessie~]

Oh, and Jairi's photo from "August 24th" of the group shot?

Originally Posted by Teal

[b]Oh, Courtney. Are you going to stalk, slander, and attack me for the rest of my life?

For the record - Courtney has never met me in person or seen my dogs.

These two pictures are from 08/24/2011... this thread was started 08/26/11.

NOPE.

She posted it on AUGUST 15th.



Not sure if I can share the link to another forum on here publically, but she posted up this picture on August 15th at 5:01pm.

Mods, if you feel the need to remove this link feel free to do so. I'm just backing up my evidence:

<removed> no other forum posts/links

Poor puppy looks bony and sickly here... and Dianna didn't get ahold of him until August 29th. He had two whole extra weeks from this point to being completely emaciated.