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  #11  
Old 11-08-2004, 02:15 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Amy sent me the name of the collar she's had to use with one of her males. It's Tri Tronic. I found a link with some decent information about their collars and a training video. Whoo! This stuff gets expensive!

http://www.dog-training.com/tritronics.htm
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2004, 07:35 PM
Millie Millie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tl_ashmore
I don't want to have to use a shock collar on Beulah, but I don't know what else to do. I asked my dad about it, and he said that the collar will NOT increase their aggression during a fight. He said it could really work for me. I hate having to do this, but I am at my witts end. I've had to keep Beulah on a chain outside, and she absolutely hates it. She pulls so hard, that the collar has bruised her neck. I hate it, but I've got to do something. I don't want Beulah to end up hurting Dixie, but I don't want to have to get rid of Dixie either. There is no way I could get rid of Beulah. I got her from my uncle a few months before he died...
I said it CAN increase aggression in dogs.The directions/training manual that came with my shock collar had a paragraph on the reasons why you shouldn't use the collar. That was one of them. Its one of those things that can happen. Training a dog with a shock collar can back fire.There also is a well know dog trainer in my area that has a radio talk show and she said the same thing. Can you speak to a dog trainer to come in and help figure out why these too fight.Talk to your vet. I would hate for you to make the situation worse because of the shock collar.

Please read link
http://www.apbc.org.uk/article2.htm
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2004, 09:44 PM
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Thanks for the link, Millie. It's a good article.

I think the message toward the end of the article is what we're having to struggle with: "Only in a handful of cases, where all else has been tried and failed, and when the condition is potentially life-threatening, can the use of such devices ever be justified [sic]"

None of us here actually wants to resort to this kind of technique; we're finding ourselves in situations that are potentially life threatening for our dogs. Most of us have a pretty good handle on what's causing the problems at this point, too, we've just had no significant results using less "shocking" techniques.

I'll share a part of the e-mail my friend (who is an expert with the Filas) sent me when I asked her advice:

"Tri Tronics that is my advice for such a serious and dangerous problem. Not a huge fan of shock collars but in a couple situations it has been the last and only solution.

I have a male that when Betina is in heat he literally rips through chain link, etc. He causes himself an amazing amount of harm in doing so, but when he is hormone crazed he feels nothing even when his head is swollen twice the size and bleeding. Have to use the collar a couple times, but it has made all the difference. Nothing else worked.

Granted, the $350 is a lot, but other brands do not hold up or even work any where near as well. And even though I haven?t had to use it for livestock training I imagine it would work well for that since the level is easily adjusted and they do not even feel the lowest levels at all."
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2004, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millie
I said it CAN increase aggression in dogs.The directions/training manual that came with my shock collar had a paragraph on the reasons why you shouldn't use the collar. That was one of them. Its one of those things that can happen. Training a dog with a shock collar can back fire.There also is a well know dog trainer in my area that has a radio talk show and she said the same thing. Can you speak to a dog trainer to come in and help figure out why these too fight.Talk to your vet. I would hate for you to make the situation worse because of the shock collar.

Please read link
http://www.apbc.org.uk/article2.htm
I know WHY the dogs are fighting. They are just trying to establish dominance in the house. Both of them want to be TOP dog, and they are not backing down about it. I don't want to have to use a shock collar, that is just a last resort.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2004, 02:45 PM
agilitydobemom agilitydobemom is offline
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I own a shock collar and it only comes out when totally necessary and that means usually in the field with the hunting dogs like a rabbit dog who likes to run deer it is impossible to break them of running deer without a shock collar and sometimes that don't even work anyways I have used it on my Dobes to train them to the boundries of the yard and took like one day maybe two but not very many pokes and they were done leaving the yard my mom also had a Dobie that as soon as you let him out of the door he would run down the driveway and onto the road and she lives on a highway luckily he never got splattered it took him lilke four days to learn to stay in the yard I love a shock collar when it is used correctly don't get me wrong I am a firm believer in using praise and food and a clicker and only use one when it is absolutelly needed
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2004, 07:34 PM
Millie Millie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tl_ashmore
I know WHY the dogs are fighting. They are just trying to establish dominance in the house. Both of them want to be TOP dog, and they are not backing down about it. I don't want to have to use a shock collar, that is just a last resort.

Okay. Then my advice would be to take each one to obedience training and establish yourself as the pack leader. You are the top dog,neither one of those dogs should be. Good Luck.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2004, 10:06 PM
Millie Millie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena
Millie sometimes there are dogs that will require more "forceful" training, I'm probably the biggest advocate for positive training there is, if you have read my past posts on training suggestions you will note that I frequently suggest pet owners establish pack leadership in a non-confrontational manner with the dog.

With that being said, if someone is working with an extremely *hard* dog then I could see how a tougher training program may be necessary, of course I would like to see this type of training used as an absolute final resort when all else has failed, but if the need is there, then I would rather someone educate themselves on how to use the training tool correctly.
I totally agree. But I can't tell by this post what has been done in the past. The question was about shock collars and I gave my advice. Maybe I should have asked more questions about the history of training that hasn't worked. Maybe the dogs haven't had any training or poor training or very good training that hasn't worked. I am just throwing out suggestions. I didn't think the obedience training suggestion was out of line at this point. Just because the dogs are still fighting doesn't mean they have exhausted all other forms before resorting to a shock collar. I have a very stubborn dominant dog,I know how hard it is.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2004, 07:42 AM
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tl_ashmore tl_ashmore is offline
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Thank you all for your advice. I didn't mean to stir up any problems. I just wanted to know what everyone thought about those collars. Believe me, I don't want to have to use a shock collar. That is absolutely a last resort. I had just talked to a guy that used one on his German Shepards, and he said they work great. I have also been told that the dogs will continue to fight until one or the other establishes dominance, but I don't want to take the chance of the smaller one getting hurt or worse. I'm just trying to save my dog. Plus, I am just a single girl living by herself, paying her own bills. I don't know that I could afford obedience training.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2004, 07:49 AM
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You know, it's not absolutely necessary to have an "expert" personally help you with an obedience training course. Now might be the time to go to the library or bookstore and check out some of the books and/or videos on training that Serena's recommended, the Monks of New Skete's training, or one that catches your attention and sounds effective and do it yourself.

After all, behaviourists and trainers are relatively new in the history of dog ownership. Granted, they're a great help, especially since our lives are so hectic now, but with a sense of commitment and determination to understand and teach your dog, there's no reason you can't do it on your own.

And far from stirring up anything unpleasant, I think you created an atmosphere where it was possible for several of us having frustrating problems with stubborn critters to air that and discuss some possible solutions. Thanks.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


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Felurian
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2004, 12:12 PM
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I have been doing some research on the internet, and I just don't know about some of these "so called" trainers. Some of them tell you to put your dog on Prozac. Others tell you to keep the aggressive dog muzzled. That is no way for a dog to live...
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