Breeder help (border collies)

[Babyblue5290]

I need help. I'm looking for a border collie breeder. I have decided against a rescue on this one, but it's my first time trying to find a breeder! I won't be getting a puppy for months (earliest possible being March 2012), but I want to start looking for a breeder now! I would prefer working or sport dogs rather than show.

Of course I've fallen head over heels for Hob Nob Border collies, but who hasn't? LOL That ones probably going to be out of my reach for now. I'd die if I could get there upcoming litter or Shale and Bru *drool*

But I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a breeder I like, that has dogs I like. @_@

I'd appreciate opinions and hlep! I'm in Western Wa, but will likely be in Eastern Wa at the time. I'm willing to travel a little bit to get a pup, but if possible I'd prefer not. Anyways, so only ones I've found that are even semi likeable are as follows.

First one is midnight border collies:
Midnight Border Collies

Vaccinated, CERF, OFA tested, and ABCA registered. I've got a few problems with them. Health guarantee for only one year, when questioned they stated "they are 3rd generation, if there were any problems we would have seen them by now." Seems a bit of a ignorant answer, IMO. Also it's agains "life threatening hereditary or life threatening genetic defects until one year of age" and they emphasize "life threatening." Which leads me to believe a problem that is genetic, but not deemed life threatening would be ignored. They train in Obedience, Herding and agility but do not do any actual competitions. Few other problems I have with them, so I think they are a no go.

Second one is White Road Border Collies:
White Road Border Collies | PUPPIES FOR SALE! | Shelton, Washington

Vaccinated, OFA and DNA for CEA tested. These are more of a farm dog type, where they do herding and they say agility, again not formally. Not really much else to say about them. I like the "look" of the puppies as adults, but there's not much information about how they raise the pups. I shot them an email.

Last one is Hidden Valley Border Collies:
Hidden Valley Border Collies of Oregon

This one is in oregon, not too far at all. They OFA (hips/elbows), BAER, CERF, DNA test for CEA and of course vaccinations/dewormers. Participate in agility, herding, Obedience, and tracking. And they have titles! A lot of titles lol I like these guys the best so far, I've sent an email to get some more information from them (like price! lol), but as far as I can see from their site they seem pretty good.


Any opinions? or even suggestions?

[SaraB]

I would stay away from the first two. IMO titles are necessary to prevent the breeders from being kennel blind and to ensure that their breeding stock has been evaluated by peers and they deserve to be bred.

[Babyblue5290]

SaraB, you are right. The second one I haven't recieved an email back from yet, so I don't know for sure their dogs aren't titled, though I doubt it as they would have put it on their site.

Honestly, I don't really like either of the first two, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding a breeder that I do like. The third is the only real interest at the moment, but they have nothing about contract or health of puppies or price even. So I don't know about them either!

[SaraB]

Originally Posted by Babyblue5290

Honestly, I don't really like either of the first two, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding a breeder that I do like. The third is the only real interest at the moment, but they have nothing about contract or health of puppies or price even. So I don't know about them either!

Don't rule them out just because of that! A lot of dane breeders don't put that info on their websites even though they are really good breeders. Hopefully they will be able to answer some of your questions.

Is there a sport or activity that you are interested in? Generally the best way is to attend some events, watch the dogs that interest you and talk to their owners.

[Linds]

Meh, I wouldn't rule a working BC breeder out because they don't title their dogs. Just like I wouldn't rule out a sighthound breeder who didn't title their dogs but hunted them. A great ranch and/or farm dog can be worth it's weight in gold and you can't typically tell that from title, herding or not because most of the time the real ranch/farm work doesn't have much in common with trials so titles don't really help prove breeding quality for those types of dogs.

For that second breeder I think the most telling thing would be to have them get you in contact with people who've gotten their dogs and gone off to compete in trialed events.

But I hope the third breeder emails you back since you seem to like them the best! Personally, since I'm allergic to contracts that was the first thing I liked about them

Hope some of the BC chime in with some more suggestions for you breeder wise

[SaraB]

Originally Posted by Linds

Meh, I wouldn't rule a working BC breeder out because they don't title their dogs. Just like I wouldn't rule out a sighthound breeder who didn't title their dogs but hunted them. A great ranch and/or farm dog can be worth it's weight in gold and you can't typically tell that from title, herding or not because most of the time the real ranch/farm work doesn't have much in common with trials so titles don't really help prove breeding quality for those types of dogs.

For that second breeder I think the most telling thing would be to have them get you in contact with people who've gotten their dogs and gone off to compete in trialed events.

But I hope the third breeder emails you back since you seem to like them the best! Personally, since I'm allergic to contracts that was the first thing I liked about them

Hope some of the BC chime in with some more suggestions for you breeder wise

Dogs in the lines should be titled, if the stock dogs are working, fine, but I want to see titles somewhere. I was more or less implying the "agility" training. Agility training means squat to me unless there are titles.

[Laurelin]

Just so you're aware, Hob Nob is generally considered sport and not working. Have you joined the BC Boards?

You will get a lot further asking on the boards if you really are looking for stock working/trial bred dogs. Yes, there's a lot of politics there but it really is a great resource, particularly if you're looking for that type of dog. I posted on there about rescue dogs and had people more than willing to point me in the direction of working folks that are not too far from me.

Also, try to attend a stock trial if possible! That's what has really really swayed me towards a working style breeder if I go the breeder route. I hope to attend more in the near future.

[RD]

Working dogs have absolutely no need for titles, but I would want to see the dogs working. I do agree about agility and other sports, though. If you claim your dog is trained to do agility, why not compete? A dog that does agility for fun is probably a fun dog, but I wouldn't use "he plays agility at home" to validate breeding the dog.

BB, I'm honestly not keen on any of the breeders, but I don't know what kind of dog you are looking for. I'm completely sold on border collies bred for practical farm work or usbcha trialing. I've yet to see a dog bred for stockwork that couldn't absolutely excel at EVERY sport.

How far are you willing to travel, Babyblue? Patrick Shannahan (red top farm) is in Caldwell, Idaho. He is absolutely terrific and his dogs are outstanding as well. He might be a little far for your liking, I'm not sure.

Edited to clarify a point.

[Linds]

I guess I just don't see why they should have titled dogs in their lines if that's not what they are breeding for. But hey, maybe that's just me.

I agree though, don't say your dogs can do agility if not titled. If you have dogs that you produce going off and being titled in it then brag away but make sure people know you aren't titling or breeding for that. Just like I don't think you should say you're dogs can work (not sport work) if they aren't out working on a farm/ranch/what have you.

ETA:

Originally Posted by RD

Working dogs have absolutely no need for titles, but I would want to see the dogs working. I'm honestly not keen on any of the breeders, but I don't know what kind of dog you are looking for. I'm completely sold on border collies bred for practical farm work or usbcha trialing. I've yet to see a dog bred for stockwork that couldn't absolutely excel at EVERY sport.

Yes, that

[Laurelin]

I would kill for a Red Top dog. I'm still thinking about emailing him even though he's across the country lol.