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  #11  
Old 06-07-2011, 03:23 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
They have borzoi, Walter Wheeler's stock, and sheltie in them. A lot of folks blame Walter Wheeler's LHW for sheltie, and that's where the controversy comes from. The LHW folks insist their dogs are pure whippet, and everybody else insists not.

Regardless, silkens have an extremely high occurence of the MDR1 gene (drug sensitivity) which is comparatively rare in both purebred borzoi and whippets, but very common in shelties. So sheltie got in there somehow.

Also, some folks have told me it can be a challenge to find venues for lurecoursing with them if that's something you'd like to do competitively. Same deal with LHW though.

I've met a bunch, and really they are very lovely dogs. Pretty typical sight hound temperaments, quiet, sensitive, etc. They all made really good house dogs.
Actually if we wish to be factual there is no evidence of sheltie in the lines. Not saying its not there... just never been sure why people picked shelties as LHW (of the non ILWA) never have double coats. The MDR1 gene HAS been found in regular pure whippets. Its not often looked for, but its there. Same with an eye issue typical to herding breeds. Now this could be because other things were added, or it could be its in the foundations stock and both LHW and Silkens are VERY inbred (thus greatly increasing the chances of finding those issues) How do regular ch. AKC or CKC whippets have these issues then if one MUST have sheltie in there? (other than the fact all whippets have a 'farm dog' ancestry)

Quote:
A
mutant haplotype that was conserved among affected breeds
indicated that the allele was identical by descent. Based on breed
histories and the extent of linkage disequilibrium, we conclude
that all dogs carrying mdr1-1 are descendants of a dog that lived
in Great Britain before the genetic isolation of breeds by registry
(ca. 1873). The breed distribution and frequency of mdr1-1
as no one argues they were created about that time frame (or at least not a closed breed and people still 'making their own') then why would one not expect them to have it. I have heard of some terriers testing positive. (I won't use ivermectin on ANYTHING not tested)

The controversy is much less than it used to be. The LHWA finds no problems finding ch. smooth whippets to breed too. Sure there are some vocal people, but you find that everywhere. Seems some of the vocal few have come to say they wish they could have apologized to Walter as they now believe him.

I cant say I care one way or another. Whippets are a relatively new breed, greys were bred to terriers, spaniels and the like to make whippets. Basically whippets were a poor mans dog, so there are loads of things behind whippets... ALL whippets. But saying that "The LHW folks insist their dogs are pure whippet, and everybody else insists not. " IME isn't true. The geneticist in me says it could easily go either way.. there is no evidence to believe one way or another.

As for venues, at least here the Canadian Amateur Racing Assoc recognize LHW (not sure about silkens). That is straight racing and ovals, not coursing though. The LHW course at their own events. (I assume Silkens do the same)
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2011, 03:41 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post

The controversy is much less than it used to be. The LHWA finds no problems finding ch. smooth whippets to breed too. Sure there are some vocal people, but you find that everywhere. Seems some of the vocal few have come to say they wish they could have apologized to Walter as they now believe him.

I cant say I care one way or another. Whippets are a relatively new breed, greys were bred to terriers, spaniels and the like to make whippets. Basically whippets were a poor mans dog, so there are loads of things behind whippets... ALL whippets. But saying that "The LHW folks insist their dogs are pure whippet, and everybody else insists not. " IME isn't true. The geneticist in me says it could easily go either way.. there is no evidence to believe one way or another.

As for venues, at least here the Canadian Amateur Racing Assoc recognize LHW (not sure about silkens). That is straight racing and ovals, not coursing though. The LHW course at their own events. (I assume Silkens do the same)
Bolding mine, sorry that was poor wording. I meant some folks, not all. I don't really have an opinion either way, except that the evidence like you posted suggests they are pure. I think that if sheltie got into the silkens somehow it probably came from someone who had dogs from Walter and did an outcross to shelties with their own stock, and then their dogs were used in silkens. I have no idea though, as that's just speculation. There was another club (can't think of the name!) that did start with his dogs and outcrossed them to various breeds to get different coats, like wirecoats.

Either way, both are really nice though. If I ever had to downsize, I'd probably look into either one as an option.
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2011, 04:38 PM
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HayleyMarie HayleyMarie is offline
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Ohh La la I have heard of them, but never did any research on them.

But one things for sure thats one sexy looking dog. I want!
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:46 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romy View Post
Bolding mine, sorry that was poor wording. I meant some folks, not all. I don't really have an opinion either way, except that the evidence like you posted suggests they are pure. I think that if sheltie got into the silkens somehow it probably came from someone who had dogs from Walter and did an outcross to shelties with their own stock, and then their dogs were used in silkens. I have no idea though, as that's just speculation. There was another club (can't think of the name!) that did start with his dogs and outcrossed them to various breeds to get different coats, like wirecoats.

Either way, both are really nice though. If I ever had to downsize, I'd probably look into either one as an option.
The thing is no one (other than the vocal few) think that there is sheltie in silkens. I have no idea why they picked shelties to claim ancestry. I would think you should pick a border collie or maybe a spaniel to have the same type of coat. Neither breeds share coat patterns, texture, etc with shelties...

There are two LHW registries. One openly crosses various things in and has 'percentage' whippets (ie how much is whippet) The other one has bred only to whippets since the 50's (regardless of whether they started out pure or not)

Ya either way they are fun breeds. LOL this is why I like JRTs, far less getting all upset about such things. How ever they happened they are here now.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2011, 09:55 PM
96 GTS 96 GTS is offline
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Their name always seems like a fairy tale creature to me, lol.
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2012, 12:34 PM
waserat waserat is offline
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WOW! They are very beautiful.
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  #17  
Old 08-10-2012, 04:56 PM
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I really like silkens! I have met several at ASFA events and they are nice little dogs, very pretty and most have great temperaments that I've met If it were something you were to lure course with, last I knew they still are not allowed to run AKC
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2012, 05:35 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I met two at a dog show in Tulsa this past spring. They were both wonderful little dogs. One of them took Reserve BIS in altered conformation. They were very sweet and seemed pretty confident.
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