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  #31  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
Same with GSDs actually. I can't imagine seeing so many Tollers in agility that they outnumber BCs! Are there a lot of breeders in your area?

I have no doubt there are some very drivey Tollers and that some really excel in agility. But I don't think there are any which excel in Schutzhund.
Tollers have won big at regionals and nationals in agility here. They are a pretty popular breed. I even see a lot of 'just pet' tollers wandering around with people on the streets.

Does the OP need a dog who excels in sch? Or just one that would have fun and do well. Its like agility, does she need a dog to qualify for nats, or just have a good time trialling?

I know a few tollers who I think would make good sch dogs. Hard, driven types. Would they be AMAZING? Probably not. The sch clubs that I have met around here are pretty scary (as in all testosterone, dogs bleeding, no one caring, all harsh punishments...)anyway. So you are right, you might need a GSD to even have these people talk to you. (cause you know if your dog isn't a dobe, a rot, or a GSD its not a real dog and is wimpy....)
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  #32  
Old 05-13-2011, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Tollers have won big at regionals and nationals in agility here. They are a pretty popular breed. I even see a lot of 'just pet' tollers wandering around with people on the streets.

Does the OP need a dog who excels in sch? Or just one that would have fun and do well. Its like agility, does she need a dog to qualify for nats, or just have a good time trialling?

I know a few tollers who I think would make good sch dogs. Hard, driven types. Would they be AMAZING? Probably not. The sch clubs that I have met around here are pretty scary (as in all testosterone, dogs bleeding, no one caring, all harsh punishments...)anyway. So you are right, you might need a GSD to even have these people talk to you. (cause you know if your dog isn't a dobe, a rot, or a GSD its not a real dog and is wimpy....)
Where I go Dobes are considered a pretty wimpy dog (especially beside the head of a Rott on steriods)
I haven't decided 100% if SchH is the way I want to go. If a find a dog I really like and it enjoy the sport, why not? But it definitely would not be worth putting the time and effort on a dog that won't take me very far; I'll probably end up wanting to adopt yet an other dog that actually can.

I'm going to a SchH trial tomorrow, and apparently a man with JRT puppies (sire competes in SchH) for sale will be there. Maybe after I check out Olga's pups, I'll go see his. Wouldn't a JRT be neat?
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  #33  
Old 05-13-2011, 01:18 PM
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YouTube - Claudia Romard & Mr. Murphy

Any breed can participate in Schutzhund. A BH title is a worthwhile achievement in any breed. Personally I'd pick the breed that best fit your living situation unless you knew for certain you wanted a working dog where the priority is truly the work first.
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  #34  
Old 05-13-2011, 04:37 PM
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Any breed can participate in Schutzhund.
Yes and no. Any dog who has prey, toy and/or food drive could potentially play at doing SchH or at least one or two of the phases. It's fairly rare for a non-traditional breed to get real far in it though because of the protection work. Many are ok for training but will never be able to compete. Protection work requires a rather specific set of temperament traits and generally speaking, dogs who are not selectively bred for those traits generally don't possess all of them. Lots of very drivey dogs of non-protection breeds do not have the nerve or "fight drive" to do seriously do SchH. Many dogs of protection breeds which have not been selectively bred for the work don't either, which is why some traditional protection breeds aren't popular in the protection sports in modern times. Even some working bred dogs of protection breeds wash out due to temperament faults that surface when working in protection. The majority of people who start SchH with a non-traditional breed or a non-work bred traditional breed end up getting another dog if they are really into the sport. That isn't a knock on working non-traditional breeds or non-working bred dogs, I think it's fun to see dogs like Mr Murphy. It's just that unlike agility, the SchH rather limited in which breeds are likely to do well in it.
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  #35  
Old 05-13-2011, 05:05 PM
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I think people really need to decide what a Toller is. Breed people, sport people, everyone. Is a Toller just a golden colored BC? Is it a retriever? If so, why are they being compared to BCs on crack?

Now Sch? It should be instinctual to not grab and hold on. If any dog is good at bitework, I can't see how it can be good at retrieving birds undamaged. Plenty of times people have mentioned them being shy, not a great bite work trait.
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  #36  
Old 05-13-2011, 05:19 PM
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They don't herd, but they can be very intense (hence the bc on crack term) Yes they retrieve. Though the few I know well retreve instincutally had to be taught to be gentle.

JRTs aren't bred to hold either. Yet I can lift Dekka up by a tug easily. All you need is a driven dog who has tenacity. Sch isn't real protection, any more than hunt tests are hunting, or earth dog trials are earth work. Any dog with good drive should be able to learn those things. (earth dog will be limited to dogs who fit down those tunnels, but they are big. Cockers fit down them)

ETA there are more than a few BC doing sch work. And they are not bred to latch on at all.
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  #37  
Old 05-13-2011, 06:41 PM
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Are alapahas included in the Ontario pit bull ban? There's someone on this board that has a pair and does bitework very successfully with them. I imagine they'd be pretty good at agility too, though it's hard to know if you could get to nationals with one. They are so rare you really don't see them competing in many venues.
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  #38  
Old 05-13-2011, 06:49 PM
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I know of one here. As long as you have good documentation its not a staffie or and APBT you are safe. Though you can't adopt a dog who has no definitive proof as the onus is on the owner to prove they are not banned, vs the authorities to prove it is.
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  #39  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:35 PM
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I know someone with mals and corgis who was hardcore agility and moved her focus to schuzhund. She takes the corgis with her to schutzhund practice, she plays with them there, but she doesn't compete them. She admitted if she wasn't already a regular in the club with a 'normal' breed of dog they'd have sent her packing though.

Just because a dog may be able to play at it, doesn't mean the club won't treat you poorly or even allow you to come out unless you have a more standard schutzhund breed. I'm sure some clubs welcome people with open arms, not all do.
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  #40  
Old 05-14-2011, 06:43 PM
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Or my favorite, someone comes up to me with a black, hairy obvious mixed breed and asks if my dogs are Belgians because that's what their's is. Of course, their's came from the shelter but look how much similar their dog is to mine! They look almost identical! Except that they don't really look the same at all...

Duh, all black, longer-haired, prick eared dogs are Belgian Sheepdogs. The ones with drop ears are Flat Coated Retrievers.

I do feel your pain. Anything fawn with a black mask and prick ears is a Malinois.

A few weeks ago a guy told me that his Chesapeake Bay Retriever looked so much like my dog. I had both dogs with me, and I didn't bother asking which looked like his Chessie.



I assume it was Harry, since he's at least kind of a brown color.
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