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  #11  
Old 05-11-2011, 09:52 PM
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What about a Toller? Not exactly uncommon here, but still as things go an uncommon breed.

(these days I see more tollers around than labs or goldens)
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
My GSDs were from working lines. I have to agree, they're a great fit! But I really would like to get that a dog that you don't see everyday, you know? There are so many crappy GSDs from BYBs, and I absolutely hated it when people would even dare to compare them to my boys. I guess the way I put it makes me sound like a really snobby-proud person. :/ I just prefer to be unique.
Really, I guess it depends on how into Schutzhund you are. A lot of the breeds mentioned could be suitable for agility but Schutzhund is a bit harder. AFAIK there is only one breeder who has Smooth Collies that do SchH and they are in I think Germany. The average collie in the US is not what I would consider "high drive". Field bred Labs can be lots of fun but their potential for Schutzhund will be limited. Same with a Brittany or a Toller.

Here's something a bit different - Tervs from working Mal lines: About Us: Sprite Working Belgian Tervuren

And something very different (probably would have to import one, as there's not many in the US): YouTube - Roughrags Rage "Rakk" - IPO training

GSDs tend to be much more forgiving than the Belgian breeds overall but obviously, some of that depends on the individual too.


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You'll get a million people that will ask you what breed you have and then act like you're either lying, made up a breed, don't know what you're talking about or like they totally knew that even though they had never heard the breed. Then you'll get to hear about how their brothers sister's cousin has a dog that looks just like what you have and must be it or that they have the same breed.

Or you'll get the people that come up and tell you what your dog is or insist it's a mutt.

You'll get to the point where you want to just have it printed up on a shirt or a flyer to hand out.

So pretty much what I'm saying is know you'll get driven just as nuts if not more so with a rare breed as you would with a more common one
Absolutely! Sometimes I just wish I could take the Belgians out to say, the big outdoor flea market and not have to stop every few feet to tell someone what breed my dog is, to hear how much like look like "Black Collies" or wolves or black shepherds or "my uncle's dog, only his is 150lbs!" or "a dog that would be kickass to breed to a wolfdog". Even after I say what they are, some people don't believe me. "Oh they're a breed? They look just like mutts!". Or my favorite, someone comes up to me with a black, hairy obvious mixed breed and asks if my dogs are Belgians because that's what their's is. Of course, their's came from the shelter but look how much similar their dog is to mine! They look almost identical! Except that they don't really look the same at all...
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2011, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
What about a Toller? Not exactly uncommon here, but still as things go an uncommon breed.

(these days I see more tollers around than labs or goldens)
Tollers are pretty and hardworkers in the agility ring, but I think they're a little bit too soft of a breed for me. Or maybe that's just the way I portray them?
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
Tollers are pretty and hardworkers in the agility ring, but I think they're a little bit too soft of a breed for me. Or maybe that's just the way I portray them?
Tollers, from what I understand, are a hell of a lot more dog than those of us who don't own them think they are.

I think you need to decide if you want to be serious in schutzhund or not. Like Aleron said, we could recommend agility dogs til we ran through literally every breed in existence, sure they may not all make nat'ls but if for nothing but fun it's a sport almost every dog can do.

Is there a reason you would not like a purebred apbt? They are both very stable, exceedingly stable, in temperament and can excel at both schutzhund and agility and be ime the most forgiving training dogs out there.

Dogos can excel at both sports but can also have a lot of issues with training. They're wonderful dogs but not nearly as forgiving.

Have you considered an Australian cattle dog? Similar to Kelpie but with a lot of edge, they are small but mighty, they can excel in both sports as well. Then again, they're not always good with other kids, dogs and can be very unforgiving if they feel they've been corrected unfairly.

BRT tend to have far to many health issues for me to even consider investing my time in. Plus their coat is high maintenance.

Beaucerons are amazing dogs but every beauc I have met thus far (even in sports) are boring a heck. I mean they are very sweet dogs but no fire, no get up and go they'd rather chill and be cuddled. Supposedly a gal in California has some amazing working line PP/Sch Beauc but I've yet to see any of them.

I wouldn't really consider an Akbash for what you're looking for.

Honestly with what you say you want I think a well bred apbt would be the best fit, second to that potentially a shepherd breed.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:10 AM
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SG1 Xsara von Godalis (a.k.a Bella, my favorite bitch she owns!) and VA1 Xbox dei Precision were bred in March by my friend Olga from Kiefernwald. She should have puppies (if she hasn't already) sometime this month!

Even though I said I wouldn't get a pup for a while, it can't hurt just to stop by and see them...
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  #16  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Tollers, from what I understand, are a hell of a lot more dog than those of us who don't own them think they are.

I think you need to decide if you want to be serious in schutzhund or not. Like Aleron said, we could recommend agility dogs til we ran through literally every breed in existence, sure they may not all make nat'ls but if for nothing but fun it's a sport almost every dog can do.

Is there a reason you would not like a purebred apbt? They are both very stable, exceedingly stable, in temperament and can excel at both schutzhund and agility and be ime the most forgiving training dogs out there.

Dogos can excel at both sports but can also have a lot of issues with training. They're wonderful dogs but not nearly as forgiving.

Have you considered an Australian cattle dog? Similar to Kelpie but with a lot of edge, they are small but mighty, they can excel in both sports as well. Then again, they're not always good with other kids, dogs and can be very unforgiving if they feel they've been corrected unfairly.

BRT tend to have far to many health issues for me to even consider investing my time in. Plus their coat is high maintenance.

Beaucerons are amazing dogs but every beauc I have met thus far (even in sports) are boring a heck. I mean they are very sweet dogs but no fire, no get up and go they'd rather chill and be cuddled. Supposedly a gal in California has some amazing working line PP/Sch Beauc but I've yet to see any of them.

I wouldn't really consider an Akbash for what you're looking for.

Honestly with what you say you want I think a well bred apbt would be the best fit, second to that potentially a shepherd breed.
Thanks!
APBT would have been my first choice, but I'm in Ontario...
I would have to adopt a grandfathered (7-8 year old) APBT, and wouldn't even be able to compete!
How would I do schutzhund with a muzzled pit?
How would I do agility with a pit that must be on-leash at all time in public?

My think my list is down to workling- line GSD or an other mutt from a shelter.
I can compete in Agility, Schutzhund and can even expand into Dock Diving and Skijoring. Definitely an all- round dog!
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:38 AM
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Most of the Tollers I know are fairly hard and drivey. People around here call them BC on crack. Of course it would depend on what lines you got, but there are some very hard extremely drivey tollers out there.

I would put them in the same category as Kelpies for drive and sharpness.

Though you also have to watch for DR, many of the sharper tollers I know are fairly DR to strange dogs in their space.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2011, 09:42 AM
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Aw, yeah, Ontario sucks.
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  #19  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
Absolutely! Sometimes I just wish I could take the Belgians out to say, the big outdoor flea market and not have to stop every few feet to tell someone what breed my dog is, to hear how much like look like "Black Collies" or wolves or black shepherds or "my uncle's dog, only his is 150lbs!" or "a dog that would be kickass to breed to a wolfdog". Even after I say what they are, some people don't believe me. "Oh they're a breed? They look just like mutts!". Or my favorite, someone comes up to me with a black, hairy obvious mixed breed and asks if my dogs are Belgians because that's what their's is. Of course, their's came from the shelter but look how much similar their dog is to mine! They look almost identical! Except that they don't really look the same at all...
I know, I honestly never thought it would be as annoying as it is but it seriously gets to the point where you just don't want to run into people.

And that last one is seriously the most annoying thing ever!! Drives me up a wall.

One time I had a lady come over to Traveler and say nothing to me and go to him "Aren't you such a cute mutt" and I wasn't going to say anything but a lady I was with goes "He's not a mutt, he's an Australian Koolie" and the lady just rolled her eyes, scoffed and goes to Trav "Well, I think you're a cute mutt" and then walked away.

FalseImpression, I don't know if you've ever looked into them but Koolies might fit what you want. I only say this because I know them best.them better than other breeds so I figured I would point them out to you if you're interested

They really aren't that big though for the most part (though size will vary from 20 pounds to 50) and haven't been tested in bitework sports really (though hopefully that will change soon with Trav) but I think they could do excellent in them. They are also up and coming nicely in the agility world in Australia. Nice wash and wear coat especially the smooth ones. Very very versatile breed from herding, to agility to skijoring, bikjoring and sledding and so on. Insanely fast learners and incredibly intuitive. But, loud, very barky and love to talk

There are a couple breeders in Canada one of them lives in Ontario and the other in BC. If you are interested at all I could give you their contact info.
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2011, 10:20 AM
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I was going to suggest ACD as well. Adrianne summed them up perfectly - small but mighty is absolutely correct! Not at all uncommon in agility and I always thought they'd have fun with Schutzhund. Stardogs on here I believe has started Schutzhund with her ACD mix Kestrel, so she might be a good person to talk to (:

Good with kids if they've been raised with them and taught to be tolerant and not to heel them when they're running around. Dally did try this from the get go but it didn't take her long to catch on that we didn't want her to, LOL.

The big concern is SSA though. IME I've found it more of a problem with bitches, the males I've known have actually been quite tolerant with other males if they've been properly socialized right from the beginning. I'm not sure if I've just seen a lot of exceptions though.
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