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  #11  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:03 AM
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colliewog colliewog is offline
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As long as you have homes who will not be upset if their dog goes 'oversize' due to CKC standards, I'd breed for the best health and conformation and hope for the right height. You're dealing with such a small number (an inch or less) that it's all a crapshoot anyway - it's not like it's a 5 inch difference!

Do the judges make a habit of wicketing Beagles?
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colliewog View Post
As long as you have homes who will not be upset if their dog goes 'oversize' due to CKC standards, I'd breed for the best health and conformation and hope for the right height. You're dealing with such a small number (an inch or less) that it's all a crapshoot anyway - it's not like it's a 5 inch difference!

Do the judges make a habit of wicketing Beagles?
Yup. Seen it done alot if the dog is close.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2011, 06:05 AM
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i think it is fascinating that a dog can finish a Ch and then become disqualifiable.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2011, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Sit Stay View Post
I think if the breeder has the knowledge and experience to stand back and evaluate their stock without having to show it (same with the horses - so many people are "barn blind" to their own stock, but if a breeder has been in the biz for 40+ years, knows the market, has shown and seen/been on the best of the best, has the experience and can accuratately judge the horse I won't fault them for breeding an unshown horse), breeding a small DQ that doesn't negatively affect the dog is OK IF the dog is outstanding in all other ways and would better the breed, so to speak.
Even then they should be seeking the opinion of other experienced people in their breed for an objective eye to ensure they are not being biased. Which in theory is kind of the point of showing (not saying just conformation showing here) but doesn't necessarily have to take the form of showing under certain circumstances.

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i think it is fascinating that a dog can finish a Ch and then become disqualifiable.
One of the sketchier aspects of finishing a puppy then never showing him/her again. I've wondered what the value is of evaluating an immature dog as breeding stock, but that's not really my arena.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2011, 07:46 AM
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On a beagle it wouldnt' bother me. Its only part of the 'on paper ideal' A little extra height is not going to affect health, temperament or working ability. so Meh.

If the perfect male match for Kat had brindle markings (a JRT DQ) I would go for it. Doesn't affect anything I wish to do with the dog, nor actually affect the dog's working ability.

Then again I don't breed for the show ring, I do try to stay true to the breed. No two dogs are equal though. So I would pick the best male for the bitch. If she throws large pups, and height is a problem (some breeds tall is hard to breed out) then the male would have to be really nice. Lets say he was structurally great, awesome temperament and had good working ability and maybe a CD.. then it would be worth it to me.
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Fransheska101 View Post
I wouldn't do it.
Especially with such a popular breed..why not just find a sire that suits your female perfectly, height and all?
IMO, there are no perfect matches, only "pretty **** close." If there were perfect matches, there would be perfect puppies, and I have yet to see a perfect dog. Just had to get that out because I am hearing more and more people explain "they just found the perfect match EVAR" and I just chuckle, wait to see these perfect puppies (because if the cross is perfect, why aren't the puppies?), and all that excitement for nothing

To me, wouldn't be a deal breaker (breeding an oversized dog), but I would not breed a pair if the possibility of producing oversized was more than producing correct.
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
i think it is fascinating that a dog can finish a Ch and then become disqualifiable.
I am so glad that a dog HAS to earn at least 3 of it's 5 qualifying CC points after the age of 2 in South Africa. It takes out so much of the doubt.
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by puppydog View Post
I am so glad that a dog HAS to earn at least 3 of it's 5 qualifying CC points after the age of 2 in South Africa. It takes out so much of the doubt.
Not for me. . . Tho lots of people say "finish them quick" because something might change or go off (size, bite), there are a lot more mature dogs who have more coat/furnishings that have faults hidden or corrected (obviously Beagles are a different story, lol). A puppy with hardly any furnishings is going to make it hard to hide faults than a 2 year old with hair that can easily be trimmed to make a dog appear a certain way. Then again I never use show results (or pics) as a way to tell me if the dog is good or not. I trust my hands/eyes more than some of the ones in the ring. If there was a puppy I really liked but finished early, I would still want to go over them before considering breeding to them - that removes much more doubt. Not at what age a dog finished.

Sorry to get off topic OP!
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2011, 11:21 AM
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Unless a judge is incompetent (which happens) they shouldnt' be tricked by a pretty hair do.

I also like rules that state dogs must be mature. Not just for people to breed too. But lets say a breeder finishes a lot of their dogs as pups and pets them out. Looks good for their 'stats'. But is it because their dogs are good, or just are better as puppies?
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Unless a judge is incompetent (which happens) they shouldnt' be tricked by a pretty hair do.

I also like rules that state dogs must be mature. Not just for people to breed too. But lets say a breeder finishes a lot of their dogs as pups and pets them out. Looks good for their 'stats'. But is it because their dogs are good, or just are better as puppies?
That^

I wouldnt breed with a size difference that is out of standard if you are breeding for the ring IMO. I would want to weigh everything in my favor. I also would want to take the dog to some shows on my own before breeding if it were me. Being the owner of the bitch and possibly attend shows just to watch the male in the ring if possible.
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