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Old 05-04-2011, 10:27 PM
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JennSLK JennSLK is offline
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Default Breeding a disqualifying fault.

Interesting debate the other day about Beagles.

In Canada and the US over 15" in a DQ. However by FCI standards they can be up to 16". Now Solo is 14.5" but has FCI dogs in her pedigree so I need to be careful on who I breed her too.

I am considering Parker, who is also 14.5". However with him there is a good chance the puppies could be over 15". Now I could breed to Louie who is 13" and his lines are known for producing smaller with larger dogs.

For sake of argument lets say I use Parker and get puppy X. Puppy X finished it's Ch quickly but at 1yr old turns out to be 15.5". Now puppy X is a great example of the breed. Great pedigree, and great confo. Within FCI standard although not CKC/AKC.

You could breed puppy X back to Louie and get smaller dog, but breeding a dog with a DQ fault is a no no. But it isn't a DQ in some countries.

The debate is do you breed puppy X? Yes or No?
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:29 PM
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There is always a chance of breeding an oversize pup even if both parents are tiny. If both the dogs are quality, size and color really don't matter. I'm sure the rabbits don't mind.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:31 PM
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To me there are a lot of qualities you are not mentioning. Height is not huge issue. Is the most important thing getting a ch?
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:44 PM
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Who's dogs are these? just curious
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:12 PM
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I wouldn't do it.
Especially with such a popular breed..why not just find a sire that suits your female perfectly, height and all?

again, I don't know a thing about breeding and maybe if it was a smaller fault, I might feel differently. but I feel like height is a pretty major deal.. especially since both sire and dam are kind of on the taller side
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:18 PM
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I'm comfortable breeding a fault if other attributes outweigh the fault. I'd reconsider why you are breeding to a fault and judge the worthiness of the dog.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:22 PM
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Eh... a cosmetic DQ? Not a big deal at all to me. It wouldn't bother me one bit if a breeder had bred an otherwise great dog that was DQ'd for a cosmetic reason. Now, if the fault had a direct impact on the dog or it's ability to perform, then no.

Also is a matter of how far off you are. Does the dog have the a little bit of white on it's ear or is the ear completely white? (For example in papillons) Is the dog a half an inch too tall or several inches? Makes a difference imo.

We shouldn't make it a point to breed dogs that are DQ'd but that doesn't mean that no DQ'd dogs can contribute positively to the breed either.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:29 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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To me, height is probably the least of my worries. There will always be people who prefer larger or smaller than standard. That doesn't mean you should intentionally breeds huge or tiny dogs, but the fact is *someone* will want a healthy, temperamentally sound dog even if it is half an inch too tall. There are SO many other factors to consider -health, conformation, temperament, etc. Plus like you said, it's not a DQ in some venues, so it is really THAT bad? What's wrong with having an FCI Ch, as opposed to an AKC/UKC Ch.? What about performance? I guess to me a conformation Ch. isn't everything. It's nice, of course, and not a bad thing to have by any means, but I guess to be it's not the end of the world if a dog can't get a Ch. as long as it's physically and mentally sound, and otherwise a good example of the breed. Limiting your breeding stock to ONLY those that are short might breed out some otherwise very desirable traits.

I myself prefer dogs on the taller end of the standard in my breeds. Logan is right at 26", maybe a tad taller, and that is the upper limit for collies in height (granted they don't have a height DQ, but it is a fault). Same with standard poodles - I actually would prefer one on the taller side, so long as it isn't bred JUST to be tall and is unhealthy as a result.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
To me there are a lot of qualities you are not mentioning. Height is not huge issue. Is the most important thing getting a ch?
I was assuming that Puppy X was a quality dog in other ways conformationaly, temperment, drive, ect..
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:36 PM
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I agree with Laur.

I think if the breeder has the knowledge and experience to stand back and evaluate their stock without having to show it (same with the horses - so many people are "barn blind" to their own stock, but if a breeder has been in the biz for 40+ years, knows the market, has shown and seen/been on the best of the best, has the experience and can accuratately judge the horse I won't fault them for breeding an unshown horse), breeding a small DQ that doesn't negatively affect the dog is OK IF the dog is outstanding in all other ways and would better the breed, so to speak.
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