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  #11  
Old 06-06-2011, 09:47 PM
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Some people feel better about cooked diets than raw, I know a ton of vets feel better about it.

I see no problem with pressure cooked chicken bones or turkey bones, it's still better than really dead, overcooked, moistureless food ingredients like meat meals.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by naturalfeddogs View Post
Pressure cooking is still not considered raw. It is a form of cooking,so I would not feed bones that way. "soft" is what causes the splintering. You can feed it to your dog, but I won't.
You're the only one in this thread talking about raw bones. The OP was not. You appear to be so zealous and obsessive about raw that all you do is post in feeding threads to tell people to feed it and talk down to people who don't.

SOFT, mushy bones run through a GRINDER will not hurt a dog. For any lurkers reading this, please don't believe anyone who implies otherwise.


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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Soft things cannot splinter. To be brittle, you need to be hard. Most cooked bones get harder vs softer therefore get far more dangerous.

I am all for raw food, but this sort of sentiment puzzles me. Sure raw is better, but isn't fresh cooked better for people to feed than processed? The main reason cooked bones are bad is not because they are cooked (unlike meat that denatures when cooked, bones are much less effected chemically by heat) but because they typically become dangerous to eat.
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noludoru View Post
You're the only one in this thread talking about raw bones. The OP was not. You appear to be so zealous and obsessive about raw that all you do is post in feeding threads to tell people to feed it and talk down to people who don't.

SOFT, mushy bones run through a GRINDER will not hurt a dog. For any lurkers reading this, please don't believe anyone who implies otherwise.




My question is, why, if you are going to feed bones cook them at all? You are right, soft and mushy won't hurt a dog as long as it is just that, mushy. Why do that, and lose all the dental benefits of the bone?
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:34 AM
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I feed cooked bones because, first we eat the chicken, usually roasting it. Then I cook the carcass in the pressure cooker. I get good chicken broth, which I make into soup for the family. I also get soft bones, meat, cartilage, etc. I know some of the nutrients are cooked out, but the bones certainly can't splinter. I don't even grind them. It's waste not, want not situation.
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2011, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by naturalfeddogs View Post
My question is, why, if you are going to feed bones cook them at all? You are right, soft and mushy won't hurt a dog as long as it is just that, mushy. Why do that, and lose all the dental benefits of the bone?
Because the other bits have been cooked off and used. There are other benefits to bones OTHER than dental...
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  #16  
Old 06-11-2011, 10:29 AM
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Because the other bits have been cooked off and used. There are other benefits to bones OTHER than dental...
Nutrients. Which are cooked out.
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  #17  
Old 06-11-2011, 11:03 AM
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I see your problem... you need more education as to what nutrients are, and which ones are affected by cooking. That is not a big deal, but perhaps you should stop giving advice until your knowledge of science in such matter catches up to your opinions..

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A nutrient is a chemical that an organism needs to live and grow or a substance used in an organism's metabolism which must be taken in from its environment.[1] Nutrients are the substances that enrich the body. They are used to build and repair tissues, regulate body processes and are converted to and used as energy. Methods for nutrient intake vary, with animals and protists consuming foods that are digested by an internal digestive system, but most plants ingest nutrients directly from the soil through their roots or from the atmosphere.

Organic nutrients include carbohydrates, fats, proteins (or their building blocks, amino acids), and vitamins. Inorganic chemical compounds such as dietary minerals, water, and oxygen may also be considered nutrients
So Calcium, is a nutrient, and is not 'cooked' out. In fact proteins and amino acids are not cooked out either. You cook a steak, and the protein and fats are still there, as are the individual amino acids. Most will be denatured, which simply means they have changed shape. They will still all be there, interestingly some cooked items are easier to digest, even for dogs.

Enzymes are the only thing that are harmed by cooking. Enzymes NEED to be in their correct shape to work. However many enzymes are destroyed by the stomach acid of the dog (or human) as they have optimal pH values so cooking is not a big deal in most cases.

When boiling foods some vitamins and minerals ARE leached out. That is why steaming is healthier. But many of the good things are still in there. And this is a main issue with plant matter, so not a big deal for dogs... If your meat looses some fats when cooking that is not a horrible thing in many cases.

Then we have issues where food types can be beneficial outside of nutrients, like dental and digestive help. I have found bone to be one of the best things for keeping a dog's poop nice and firm. This is irregardless of cooked or not as its undigested calcium that does this. Just like undigestable or 'dietary' fibre for people.

That said I do prefer a raw diet for my guys. But I think a good diet of human grade non processed food is likely as good, or almost as good for dogs. I am not a canine nutritionist. I am however a biochemist and DO know what happens to proteins and enzymes when heat is applied and can tell you what happens down to the molecular level. I do have some education in animal physiology, as well as self researched topics in this area.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:38 AM
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Every now and then I buy a can of Wing-A-Ling by Merrick. I am just always intrigued by the soft mushy bones lol.

naturalfeddogs, even a raw bone is ALOT more likely to splinter than one that is pressure-cooked. Buy a can of Wing-A-Ling; You can't even scoop it out of the can without the bones falling apart; They are mush. As far as nutrient loss -- not really. When cooking bones you're mainly losing B and C vitamins. Dogs produce their own Vit C so it's not really needed. There is little to no mineral loss from cooking (ie calcium). Since these bones are able to be eaten entirely whole and thoroughly digested, tehcnically the dog would be recieving a great deal MORE nutrition from cooked bones as opposed to raw (atleast, I certainly don't feed my dogs raw bones that they can swallow whole -- and if they did they still would not be digesting them and therefore would not recieve the same amount of nutrients). No they won't recieve the dental benefits but it's alot more satiating, and if one is already preparing a meal using the bones, why waste them? This is something that I might actually try making at home.
ETA -- unless we're talking RMBs like chicken necks etc that actually CAN be chewed and swallowed. Someone had mentioned dental benefits etc so I assumed rec type bones which don't provide as many nutrients as a whole..
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Last edited by UniquityBelgians; 06-12-2011 at 12:53 AM.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalfeddogs View Post
Pressure cooking is still not considered raw. It is a form of cooking,so I would not feed bones that way. "soft" is what causes the splintering. You can feed it to your dog, but I won't.
?????

"Soft" is SOFT, squishy and pliable. Not splintery. I'm glad that you seem to have researched all the pros of a raw diet, but holy crap there is no need to use such vague arguments against something like this. Clearly you've never seen a pressure cooked bone, because the last thing they can do is splinter. They may not be as nutritious and fatty as raw bones, but they are not devoid of nutrition after cooking, and this sounds like a great way to reduce waste and feed the dogs at the same time.

Until you know what you're talking about, please stop acting like you do and stop treating the people in this thread with such a condescending tone.

I think pressure cooking bones is a great idea, I might do that next time I have some instead of throwing them away.
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2011, 03:01 PM
UniquityBelgians UniquityBelgians is offline
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Originally Posted by RD View Post
?????
I think pressure cooking bones is a great idea, I might do that next time I have some instead of throwing them away.
I used to have several rats; It was so nice because I never needed to waste cooked bones of any sort. My rats LOVED to gnaw on chicken bones (of course with them you don't have to worry about splintering with the (non pressure cooked) cooked bones).
We got a pressure cooker for Christmas so now I know what to do with the bones now that I no longer have my ratties.
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