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Old 04-19-2011, 03:23 PM
BullyVixen BullyVixen is offline
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Default Breeding ethics. Health testing.

So what do you all think about breeders who breed stunning examples of their breed, show their dogs, and complete AKC championships, BUT they do not health test.

I've seen MANY breeders who own, produce, and raise champions but they dont do any health testing.

I've seen this in chihuahuas. Not a big deal or bad??
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:37 PM
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Bad. I don't want a beautiful example of a breed if he's going be barely able to move in 5 years or need an expensive surgery. There are plenty of show breeders that are still BYBs because they are not improving the breed as a whole. For me, temperament and health should come before conformation. Yes the dog must look right, of course looks play a part in why someone loves a breed, but it should not be the only thing that matters.

I'm even the type who thinks dogs who do hard work still need to be health tested, I like physical, documented proof that the dog is currently healthy.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:49 PM
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Its bad, particularly with dogs who don't do anything.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:01 PM
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I don't know what really affects Chihuahuas and whether you can test for it. I mean health testing is ALWAYS preferable but if they have an incidence of HD like Italian Greyhounds do then I'm not going to hold it against breeders for not doing OFA/Pennhip lol. But if there's anything that is prevalent in the breed then yes it is a big deal, it would be the difference between me buying a pup from them or not, and (especially if that breeder is selling their pups for a good price) I certainly think it is unethical to not doing the appropriate testing.

If someone in GSD's isn't testing their hips, unless they worked those dogs into the ground every day and had had the line generations back and all the dogs were healthy (and I trusted them)... I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. And even then it would be iffy.

If we were talking (hard working, old lines with very very low/no HD) border collies I'd be less concerned.

I don't know if I'm just biased or if there's actually something to it, but for some reason a show/sport breeder who doesn't health test rubs me the wrong way whereas someone who has dogs for a real job (LGDs, herders, hunting) doesn't really.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:33 PM
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I think it all goes down to WHY you are a breeder.

I don't care how many champions you have, if you love the breed... you will do ANYTHING possible to make sure you are breeding the best examples of the breed and IMPROVING the breed you love

and that includes health testing. Just my 2 cents.

I think the excludes really older working breeders who don't really know much about health testing and things like that.. whatevever. THey work their dogs everyday all day, I'm sure they know if these dogs healthy and they kind of get a free pass because they are kind of set in their ways in many cases

but somebody showing their dogs is obviously pretty "current" in what is out there. ESPECIALLY somebody breeding dogs as common and as ridden with health issues as the chihuahua
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:44 PM
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It's pretty darn common in papillons too. The most common excuse I hear is I have the paperwork I just didn't send it in, it's such a pain to get to the cerf clinic, or I can just see the dog has perfectly normal patellas. It's really frustrating because it's so SO cheap in many small breeds compared to a larger breed dog. In most cases cheaper than a single dog show entry.

Honestly you have to be willing to deal with it to a point because so few people people in some breeds have 3rd party confirmed health testing.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:03 PM
DobeLove DobeLove is offline
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I wouldn't ever go to a breeder if they did zero health testing. I think the least (for dobes) would be vWD, Heart, and hips. But the more the better of course.

I really hate excuses. And I hate it when you ask for health tests they say "They went to the vet last week and the vet said they were healthy!"
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:28 PM
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I'm ok with dogs not being health tested in certain circumstances but being shown in Conformation is not one of them by a long shot. If you're breeding for show I want those dogs tested in everything that's typical in that breed; doubly so in breeds with major health concerns. I don't care how many CH's a dog has on them, that's irrelevent to me.

Sport bred dogs? Well, that would depend I guess on the sport, the breed, the intensity and other factors but for the most part I want to see health testing.

Now, an overall healthy breed being worked into the ground? I can certainly deal with no health testing from the right breeder if I trust them implicitly.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I'm ok with dogs not being health tested in certain circumstances but being shown in Conformation is not one of them by a long shot. If you're breeding for show I want those dogs tested in everything that's typical in that breed; doubly so in breeds with major health concerns. I don't care how many CH's a dog has on them, that's irrelevent to me.

Sport bred dogs? Well, that would depend I guess on the sport, the breed, the intensity and other factors but for the most part I want to see health testing.

Now, an overall healthy breed being worked into the ground? I can certainly deal with no health testing from the right breeder if I trust them implicitly.
Overall I am not ok with working bred dogs either. That thinking has kept eye issues in JRTs.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
It's pretty darn common in papillons too. The most common excuse I hear is I have the paperwork I just didn't send it in, it's such a pain to get to the cerf clinic, or I can just see the dog has perfectly normal patellas. It's really frustrating because it's so SO cheap in many small breeds compared to a larger breed dog. In most cases cheaper than a single dog show entry.

Honestly you have to be willing to deal with it to a point because so few people people in some breeds have 3rd party confirmed health testing.
Yeah this.

Some breeds are very behind on health testing (most often toy breeds). There are some breeders who health test but all in all not many and you certainly won't find pedigrees of generation after generation of health tested dogs like in other breeds.

There have been many articles and pushes I've seen to get more decent breeders health testing. So right now I am hopeful the breed will catch up with the others. All the more temptation for me to want to breed and do things the way I'd like to see it.

Luckily they're a healthier breed especially compared to their close relatives and to be honest the things that concern me the most aren't things you can test for either (epilepsy and NAD). But they won't continue to be healthy if we don't start utilizing health testing.
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