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Old 04-07-2011, 03:13 AM
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Am I insane? Paul and I have been doing research about a fourth dog for a long while now. Paul wanted a ridgeback but has decided against it due to being too big. Now he wants an africanis. I am ok with that but not sure if a primitive hound will suit our household.

We also live in an area, while gorgeous, has an issue with crime due to two squatter camps that border us. It is a pretty affluent area and these camps descend into it at night. The other night there was a chase on the go and the cops and some men in pickups managed to corner a man in the reeds in front of the house. They caught him but it took a while.

So, that got me thinking. We intend to remain in the area because we love all it has to offer, nature, dunes, beach, mountains etc. BUT, I feel I want a dog that will pull his or her weight with regards to protection of me and the household.

It would have been so much easier to send a well trained protection dog into the reeds and have it scare the ever loving sh1t out of the guy in there.

Obviously we would not be getting a Mal until we moved out of our townhouse and into a larger property. It is just not fair to expect a high high energy large dog to be happy in such a small yard. We do walk a LOT but still, I would want the dog to have freedom to run in a yard during the day. So, we are looking 3 to 4 years time.

I love high drive dogs and everything about them. I love the look and temperament of Mals, I love the drive and intensity. I have always wanted a dog to do bite work with and take to competition standards. Now, obviously my Paps would not be ideal for that!

Some questions.

How well to Mals do with little dogs? I know most dogs cope fine if they are raised with them but what is a Mals play style like? Are they rough or will they self edit to not harm small, delicate dogs?

Just how much exercise do they require to remain healthy and happy? We do on average about 2 hours a day here. It is not what I would call rough terrain but it is a long and hard walk.

What is their trainability like?

Are they biddable or more difficult?

I just want to add that I don't want this dog as my own personal security guard, but that is a bonus if the dog is sharp and turned on. I want a pet and working dog first and foremost. Another agility prospect wouldn't suck either!

Thanks for taking the time to read and if you did, answer this.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:59 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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If you have any trained dog and you send it anywhere other than into your house, you're asking for nothing but trouble
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by puppydog View Post
How well to Mals do with little dogs? I know most dogs cope fine if they are raised with them but what is a Mals play style like? Are they rough or will they self edit to not harm small, delicate dogs?

Mine haven't been with dogs smaller than the corgis, but they do learn how to play with them appropriately - sort of...

What I mean is that malis play rough. A lot of pawing and biting and mounting and wrestling and running. If they slam into corgi though, that corgi will give the mali a piece of his mind. And the mali will be more careful next time. But not necessarily the next play session. Tyr learned as a puppy to run up to Ares, and then drop to the ground about a foot away. But I taught it to him, he didn't do it automatically.

I'd really say how they do with paps is going to depend a lot on the individual mali and it should definitely be on the list of things to discuss with a breeder - and preferably find a breeder who can provide early exposure to small dogs.


Just how much exercise do they require to remain healthy and happy? We do on average about 2 hours a day here. It is not what I would call rough terrain but it is a long and hard walk.

A two hour walk is usually a warm up for a mali. A walk just doesn't cut it. Swimming, tugging, jumping, flat out running is what they need. As for how much? It varies somewhat, but two-three hours worth a day should be good - not all at once, mind you. Malis will recharge and when they do, it's time for another workout. It's not that they need huge amounts of exercise - they don't really need more than an Aussie or a BC - it's that they don't turn off. Ever. Even if they are tired. And if you're not up for taking them out when they feel it's time - well, good luck to ya on that one.

What is their trainability like?

Very trainable. But they're not very forgiving if you screw up. They are often handler sensitive, but not always and that's something to make sure gets discussed with the breeder. They're usually very eager to please and really want to be included in things their person does. They have tons of food and toy drive which makes it easy to find rewards for them. But that drive can also easily cause a world of grief when they're over the top, when they don't have sufficient self control, when they decide anything - like the couch - is a toy.

But they are FAST! And sometimes they're three steps ahead of you because of that. It's not easy to get a mali to do what you want before he's off and running. And if they get upset, hang on honey, because things get a bit wild and explosive. They pretty much go from zero to hanging from the rafters in the blink of an eye.


Are they biddable or more difficult?

It really depends on the lines, but mine are very biddable. As long as they can add some variations once in a while - although that might be the corgi influence.

I just want to add that I don't want this dog as my own personal security guard, but that is a bonus if the dog is sharp and turned on. I want a pet and working dog first and foremost. Another agility prospect wouldn't suck either!

Oh, turning them on is easy. It's the turning them off that you need to worry about.

Thanks for taking the time to read and if you did, answer this.
My answers are in blue.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:12 AM
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If you have any trained dog and you send it anywhere other than into your house, you're asking for nothing but trouble
You would think the guy in the reeds is asking for trouble by breaking into cars.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:13 AM
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My answers are in blue.
Thank you so much. You have been a huge help. Mal in the far future, maybe.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:27 AM
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Some questions.

How well to Mals do with little dogs? I know most dogs cope fine if they are raised with them but what is a Mals play style like? Are they rough or will they self edit to not harm small, delicate dogs?
Honestly, Mals are not well known for being good with small dogs. Ours lived with chihuahuas when we first got them and did well as puppies. These dogs CAN be taught to be careful but they are mostly all extremely fast, strong, and their brain shuts off when excited (seriously). A small dog could get hurt easily, as could a child, the breed is rarely recommended for a home with children. It can work but they're not great kid dogs because they can easily knock them over/trample them, etc.

Hell, my male literally ran into a traffic guard rail barrier and hurt his shoulder because he was so focused on his ball that he forgot to jump.

Quote:
Just how much exercise do they require to remain healthy and happy? We do on average about 2 hours a day here. It is not what I would call rough terrain but it is a long and hard walk.
They will never say no to exercise. They never, ever, stop. I mean it. My pit bulls get tired and lay down, my mals never do. If they're tired I have to worry about heat exhaustion and their obsessive water consumption (which leads to barfing then more drinking). It can depend from dog to dog also, my TD has a malinois that will relax, he's related to Stardogs Aeri, but I would also be exceedingly careful recommending this dog (or his line) to an inexperienced dog because when he is on he's the scariest, highest drive, hardest hitting dog we have and he's only 11 months old.

As for what we do, if we aren't actively exercising our dogs they're in the yard keeping one another busy. My pit bulls and Malinois just don't play the same way and I doubt your paps will either.

I really don't recommend a malinois as a pet but if you're commited enough you could probably do it but I would NEVER EVER assume they know how to guard naturally. That kind of assumption encourages fear aggression based guard dogs and out of control dogs and it's a very dangerous recipe. Malinois are born knowing how to bite, it's our responsibility to teach them when, where and who are appropriate for biting.

Quote:
What is their trainability like?
Amazing but they can be frustrating. Backup loses his head when he has food, Quarrel loses his head when he has a tug, Sloan loses her head when she's offered a bite. So its all relative, they each have areas they're easy in and areas they're hard in. Over all though, they're brilliant dogs even if it doesn't always show (remember, when in high drive these dogs literally shut off their brains).

Quote:
Are they biddable or more difficult?
Backup will work for water, you tell me? LOL but it really depends, the answer is yes but they are also rather stubborn dogs and they definitely demand a fair handler. If you don't reward often enough or correct to strongly in a moment they think it's unfair they will shut down on you or correct you.

Quote:
I just want to add that I don't want this dog as my own personal security guard, but that is a bonus if the dog is sharp and turned on. I want a pet and working dog first and foremost. Another agility prospect wouldn't suck either!
Well, like it or not they mostly will be. LOL Backup isn't a guard dog at all, he works in all prey, he's a dope. I love him for that but many would be frustrated and think he's a joke. Sloan is violently guardy, sure that can be a plus but hiking with her off lead can be dangerous. We have to leash around people and can't let her get very far in front of us, if she thinks someone is sneaking up on us she'd ruin their day.

Good luck! Have you considered a dutch shepherd? They have a bit more brain than the malinois, given they are a bit slower and they're often tougher to train but they're really nice dogs that may fit better.

Also the terv, I would LOVE a terv. They make amazing agility dogs, wonderful with family, they can definitely work as protection dogs and if you can handle they hair they're close to perfection.

Also standard poodle, rotts, apbt, am bull dog etc would be great options.
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Last edited by AdrianneIsabel; 04-07-2011 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:33 AM
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Am I the only one giggling picturing a Malanois in the middle of the Pap mail-slot frenzy?
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:39 AM
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Am I the only one giggling picturing a Malanois in the middle of the Pap mail-slot frenzy?


I didn't think of that.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Honestly, Mals are not well known for being good with small dogs. Ours lived with chihuahuas when we first got them and did well as puppies. These dogs CAN be taught to be careful but they are mostly all extremely fast, strong, and their brain shuts off when excited (seriously). A small dog could get hurt easily, as could a child, the breed is rarely recommended for a home with children. It can work but they're not great kid dogs because they can easily knock them over/trample them, etc.

Hell, my male literally ran into a traffic guard rail barrier and hurt his shoulder because he was so focused on his ball that he forgot to jump.



They will never say no to exercise. They never, ever, stop. I mean it. My pit bulls get tired and lay down, my mals never do. If they're tired I have to worry about heat exhaustion and their obsessive water consumption (which leads to barfing then more drinking). It can depend from dog to dog also, my TD has a malinois that will relax, he's related to Stardogs Aeri, but I would also be exceedingly careful recommending this dog (or his line) to an inexperienced dog because when he is on he's the scariest, highest drive, hardest hitting dog we have and he's only 11 months old.

As for what we do, if we aren't actively exercising our dogs they're in the yard keeping one another busy. My pit bulls and Malinois just don't play the same way and I doubt your paps will either.

I really don't recommend a malinois as a pet but if you're commited enough you could probably do it but I would NEVER EVER assume they know how to guard naturally. That kind of assumption encourages fear aggression based guard dogs and out of control dogs and it's a very dangerous recipe. Malinois are born knowing how to bite, it's our responsibility to teach them when, where and who are appropriate for biting.



Amazing but they can be frustrating. Backup loses his head when he has food, Quarrel loses his head when he has a tug, Sloan loses her head when she's offered a bite. So its all relative, they each have areas they're easy in and areas they're hard in. Over all though, they're brilliant dogs even if it doesn't always show (remember, when in high drive these dogs literally shut off their brains).


Backup will work for water, you tell me? LOL but it really depends, the answer is yes but they are also rather stubborn dogs and they definitely demand a fair handler. If you don't reward often enough or correct to strongly in a moment they think it's unfair they will shut down on you or correct you.



Well, like it or not they mostly will be. LOL Backup isn't a guard dog at all, he works in all prey, he's a dope. I love him for that but many would be frustrated and think he's a joke. Sloan is violently guardy, sure that can be a plus but hiking with her off lead can be dangerous. We have to leash around people and can't let her get very far in front of us, if she thinks someone is sneaking up on us she'd ruin their day.

Thanks for taking the time to read and if you did, answer this.
Good luck! Have you considered a dutch shepherd? They have a bit more brain than the malinois, given they are a bit slower and they're often tougher to train but they're really nice dogs that may fit better.

Also the terv, I would LOVE a terv. They make amazing agility dogs, wonderful with family, they can definitely work as protection dogs and if you can handle they hair they're close to perfection.

Also standard poodle, rotts, apbt, am bull dog etc would be great options.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that! I do think you are all probably right. They are not the dog for me, no matter how gorgeous they are!! I will always have Paps and it is probably not worth the risk. I LOVE tervs and there are quite a few around here.

I would definately want to train in Schutzhund so I would be focussing the dogs drive. Mmmmmm, loads to think about.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:41 AM
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No sure how the quote got all weird! LOL
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