Please help me help my dog listen

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#43
Just to give you a different perspective, this is what a reactive dog class can look like. The dogs outside the fence are learning to relax around another dog who is being active (running, playing, bouncing), and the black dog is learning to focus on me even though there are other dogs around and even when I stop doing anything interesting. Its a default "what's next mom?" type attitude, and its not that hard to build.

YouTube - Focus and control class
Great video..thats exactly what I'd love for him to be able to do. Hopefully the click to calm book will get us to this point. I doubt they have classes like this in my area (small town). I'd sign him up in a second.
 

Danefied

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,722
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Southeast
#46
Great video..thats exactly what I'd love for him to be able to do. Hopefully the click to calm book will get us to this point. I doubt they have classes like this in my area (small town). I'd sign him up in a second.
They don't in my area either :)
I was driving an hour and 15 minutes once a week for that class - and the black dog isn't really reactive, just a bit of a wild man who needed more focus and control practice.
Just depends on how you want to spend your spare time. Some moms scrapbook or do Mary Kay, this mom does dog training :D

It might be worth looking for a trainer though. You'd be surprised who's out there once you start looking. Many of the better trainers don't advertise much and get all their clients word of mouth.
Try contacting your local kennel club, and ask around for positive trainers. Karen Pryors website and APDT have trainer searches too. Though no matter who you find, I would watch several classes first and ask them pointed questions about their training philosophy.
But a class might be good for both of you, even if its just a beginner clicker class where you work on timing and neutral positions (so the treats don't turn in to bribes) etc. Might be fun!


And thank you Corgipower! *blushes*
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#47
Thanks CP and Acer.

Acer, I hope you stay with us here, post lots and keep us posted on how things go.
 

adojrts

New Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
4,089
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#48
:thumbup:
Great book!

I just wanna say I've been following this thread and haven't had anything to add -- Doberluv, Danefied and lizzybeth have had some great posts here.:D
I'll second this on all accounts :hail:

To the OP, a website you may find really useful for learning about clicker training is ClickerSolutions Home
Lots of excellent information and let the journey begin........as many of us know on here, its a great ride.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#49
I'll second this on all accounts :hail:

To the OP, a website you may find really useful for learning about clicker training is ClickerSolutions Home
Lots of excellent information and let the journey begin........as many of us know on here, its a great ride.
Thanks, I will check it out

I wanted to start the training in the house and yard but he needs to go for a walk everyday for the excercise. Would it be ok to start the clicker training in the house then on his walk and at the park. I try to go when I know theres not many people there. Its a big park so I could find some private space anyway..but I just want to make sure thats ok and wouldnt be adding too much distraction for him at once. I will keep updating his progress and everything, this forum is a great place. Thanks all.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#50
Im confused about how he can get his excercise on the leash and also train to walk with some slack on it at the same time? Once he starts pulling when we get out of the house, we will never make it off the block because I would stop every 2 feet. What I want to do is stop when he pulls, then say walk nice, and try it again in the opposite direction. I think thats what your supposed to do. But how will he get any excercise like that? I'd have to let him pull all the way to the park and around the 1 mile track, then start the leash training? Im just so confused on what to do with him. We have a small yard but my gf doesnt want me to throw his balls back there b/c she doesn't want the grass to become a mud pit this time of the year.
 

lizzybeth727

Active Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
6,403
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Texas
#51
Im confused about how he can get his excercise on the leash and also train to walk with some slack on it at the same time?
Dogs - especially active, herding breeds - don't get a lot of physical exercise when they go on walks. Dogs need to trot, if not run, to get meaningful exercise.

But while a walk may not be great for physical exercise, it's AWESOME for mental exercise. Getting a dog out of his home and letting him see, hear, and smell a new environment is EXTREMELY important for his mental health. And he should be tired after all that stimulation. It's like if you sit in a class all day, at the end of the day you're probably tired, even though you've just been sitting all day and haven't been exercising. Same thing with the mental workout a walk gives a dog. IMO mental exercise is almost more important than physical exercise.

Once he starts pulling when we get out of the house, we will never make it off the block because I would stop every 2 feet.
The best thing is to teach him how to walk nicely in your house and yard first, before taking that training out to a new and more interesting environment. It will still be difficult when you add all the extra distractions of the neighborhood, but it should be a lot easier if you put in the foundation work in your house and yard first.

What I want to do is stop when he pulls, then say walk nice, and try it again in the opposite direction. I think thats what your supposed to do.
Yes... sort of.

First of all, I don't say "walk nice." IMO it should be understood. The only way we walk IS nicely. Like how you don't have to tell me to go to the toilet every time I have to pee, I just know that that's the ONLY way to go. :) Plus, too much talking - particularly when the dog is doing something you don't want - just confuses dogs and makes the training a lot more complicated.

If he pulls, there are basically two options:

1. Stop walking and wait for him to stop pulling. When the leash is loose, then walk forward again. This is a good method because the reward for loose leash IS the walk. But it can be difficult because EVERY TIME the leash is tight, you have to IMMEDIATELY stop; the dog should learn that he NEVER gets to walk with a tight leash.

2. Turn around and walk the opposite direction. As soon as he hits the end of the leash, you pivot right around and start walking, possibly pulling him along for a step or two. This is also a good method, as you're using the walking away to punish the pulling. But it can also be difficult to impliment, as it confuses some dogs; I've seen dogs turning almost frantic, running in circles around the handler because they have no idea what's going on.

No matter which method you use, the MORE IMPORTANT method is that you MUST reinforce him for walking nicely with you. If you're always punishing the wrong behavior, it makes walks very discouraging for dogs. They need to get feedback about what the right behavior is. You can use treats to reward nice walking, toys, whatever he likes. In the beginning you'll need to reinforce a LOT - like, every 1 or 2 steps - but the better he gets the less you'll need to reinforce.

But how will he get any excercise like that? I'd have to let him pull all the way to the park and around the 1 mile track, then start the leash training?
If you do this, you're teaching him very well that pulling is ok.... until it's not ok. Which is extremely confusing. And if you teach him that pulling is ok, you'll never teach him that pulling is actually not ever ok.

The best thing to do would be to exercise him before the walk. Remember again, that walking isn't even very exercising to dogs; so regardless, you'll need to come up with a way to exercise him besides walking on leash. You could drive him to a fenced area where you can play ball; or jog/bike with him; or drive him somewhere where he can swim before your walk. You can get creative; but if you want to teach him to pull on the leash, you must stop allowing the pulling, right now.
 

adojrts

New Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
4,089
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#52
Check out the Silky Leash method, REALLY works. YouTube - Seattle Dog Training - Silky Leash Training. DoggieZen.com

Another method: Make sure you are holding the leash about halfway down, this way you can control and fix them when they take one step out of position and not getting out to the end of the leash. This also includes if they bear out to the outside. Don't take even one step if your dog has a tight leash, bring them back to you nicely, go to a loose leash. Take one step, if they tighten the leash bring them back, DON'T give a food reward or say anything, get the dog beside you on a loose leash. Start forward, if they keep the leash loose, reward while walking. DON'T have treats in your hand, that is luring and the results of that will be a dog that will only work when the treats are present (it also becomes part of the cue).
So here is the downside, your first couple of walks are going to leave you wanting to pull your hair out. But if you remain consistant, it does work. Rules are simple, tight leash, no moving forward, walk does not happen. Loose leash equals going for a walk. But you have to be fair, you have to be ultra aware of your leash and not be taking up the slack other than to bring them back to you. Dogs that are pullers can be very successfully trained to respond to an ounce of pressure on their collar, doesn't matter how big or how strong the dog is either.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#53
Dogs - especially active, herding breeds - don't get a lot of physical exercise when they go on walks. Dogs need to trot, if not run, to get meaningful exercise.

But while a walk may not be great for physical exercise, it's AWESOME for mental exercise. Getting a dog out of his home and letting him see, hear, and smell a new environment is EXTREMELY important for his mental health. And he should be tired after all that stimulation. It's like if you sit in a class all day, at the end of the day you're probably tired, even though you've just been sitting all day and haven't been exercising. Same thing with the mental workout a walk gives a dog. IMO mental exercise is almost more important than physical exercise.


The best thing is to teach him how to walk nicely in your house and yard first, before taking that training out to a new and more interesting environment. It will still be difficult when you add all the extra distractions of the neighborhood, but it should be a lot easier if you put in the foundation work in your house and yard first.


Yes... sort of.

First of all, I don't say "walk nice." IMO it should be understood. The only way we walk IS nicely. Like how you don't have to tell me to go to the toilet every time I have to pee, I just know that that's the ONLY way to go. :) Plus, too much talking - particularly when the dog is doing something you don't want - just confuses dogs and makes the training a lot more complicated.

If he pulls, there are basically two options:

1. Stop walking and wait for him to stop pulling. When the leash is loose, then walk forward again. This is a good method because the reward for loose leash IS the walk. But it can be difficult because EVERY TIME the leash is tight, you have to IMMEDIATELY stop; the dog should learn that he NEVER gets to walk with a tight leash.

2. Turn around and walk the opposite direction. As soon as he hits the end of the leash, you pivot right around and start walking, possibly pulling him along for a step or two. This is also a good method, as you're using the walking away to punish the pulling. But it can also be difficult to impliment, as it confuses some dogs; I've seen dogs turning almost frantic, running in circles around the handler because they have no idea what's going on.

No matter which method you use, the MORE IMPORTANT method is that you MUST reinforce him for walking nicely with you. If you're always punishing the wrong behavior, it makes walks very discouraging for dogs. They need to get feedback about what the right behavior is. You can use treats to reward nice walking, toys, whatever he likes. In the beginning you'll need to reinforce a LOT - like, every 1 or 2 steps - but the better he gets the less you'll need to reinforce.


If you do this, you're teaching him very well that pulling is ok.... until it's not ok. Which is extremely confusing. And if you teach him that pulling is ok, you'll never teach him that pulling is actually not ever ok.

The best thing to do would be to exercise him before the walk. Remember again, that walking isn't even very exercising to dogs; so regardless, you'll need to come up with a way to exercise him besides walking on leash. You could drive him to a fenced area where you can play ball; or jog/bike with him; or drive him somewhere where he can swim before your walk. You can get creative; but if you want to teach him to pull on the leash, you must stop allowing the pulling, right now.
The only problem is since I started taking him for walks already, now as soon as I put his collar on he goes mental. He just wants to go for a walk, he wont do anything inside the house or in the yard with his collar on. Would it be ok to drive him to the park and start the walking there? Or start it in my driveway and sidewalk on the way to the park? I just know theres no way he will just walk nicely in the house or in the yard with his leash on. Thanks for the response.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#54
Put the leash on several times a day and go sit on your computer or do some dishes. Then take it off. When you are ready to really go for a walk, wait for him to sit or calm down, then go. The walk will become a reward for the behavior you are waiting for. It might take a little bit, but once he gets onto the idea, it'll go faster.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#55
Put the leash on several times a day and go sit on your computer or do some dishes. Then take it off. When you are ready to really go for a walk, wait for him to sit or calm down, then go. The walk will become a reward for the behavior you are waiting for. It might take a little bit, but once he gets onto the idea, it'll go faster.
thats very interesting, I never thought about that lol. Good idea, im so glad im learning a lot of things also. thank you so much.
 

lizzybeth727

Active Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
6,403
Likes
0
Points
36
Location
Central Texas
#56
I just know theres no way he will just walk nicely in the house or in the yard with his leash on.
Or just leave it on all the time.

I actually start loose leash walking training without the leash. He can't pull if you don't have a leash to pull against! Reinforce if he's walking with you, ignore him if he's not. He'll learn that a good way to get reinforcement is to walk with you, and this should translate at least a little bit to when you start walking outside.

There are some awesome threads on this forum about how to teach loose leash walking, I'd suggest you look them up. There's a lot of good information!
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#57
That's how I start all my dogs out on learning to walk near me...no collar, no leash and reinforce frequently (tiny, tasty treats...very tiny) as long as he's coming along with you. You don't need perfection at first...just baby steps in the right direction. Well...that video is terrific. That will totally give you the idea. If you're outside doing the no leash thing, be sure it's a fenced, safe place, of course.

With that other post regarding the leash being such a cue that it's time for a walk....I mean to teach him not to be so anticipatory, mix things up so you aren't quite so predictable. LOL.

And you're ever so welcome. Anything I can think of that might be of a wee bit of help, I'll throw out. It might help and then again, it might not. LOL.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#58
Or just leave it on all the time.

I actually start loose leash walking training without the leash. He can't pull if you don't have a leash to pull against! Reinforce if he's walking with you, ignore him if he's not. He'll learn that a good way to get reinforcement is to walk with you, and this should translate at least a little bit to when you start walking outside.

There are some awesome threads on this forum about how to teach loose leash walking, I'd suggest you look them up. There's a lot of good information!
I dont think he will walk next to me much b/c to him the backyard=playtime. Im not sure if he would make the connection as well as if he had the leash on. He is not incredibly interested in treats while outside either, his biggest motivator is anything with a ball lol. He LOVES playing ball, chasing it, etc. I also forgot to mention, where we used to live, there was a black lab that would sneak under our fence every so often and he not once bit it. His behavior towards it was I think confusion. He would get aggresive but not to the point where I had to really hold him back. I would nvr let that happen, but what im saying is, if he wanted to hurt the dog he could of but I knew he wouldnt and I always had control of him. I did bring him to class today b/c I wanted to talk to the trainers, I have to say he was wagging his tail the whole time almost b/c I know I said last time he wasnt. I think he did wag last time to but I wasnt 100% sure. Still waiting for click to calm to get delivered. O yea, Lizzy, I meant to say last time thank you for a GREAT answer..very informative and helpful.
 

Doberluv

Active Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Messages
22,038
Likes
2
Points
38
Location
western Wa
#59
I dont think he will walk next to me much b/c to him the backyard=playtime. Im not sure if he would make the connection as well as if he had the leash on. He is not incredibly interested in treats while outside either, his biggest motivator is anything with a ball lol. He LOVES playing ball, chasing it, etc. I also forgot to mention, where we used to live, there was a black lab that would sneak under our fence every so often and he not once bit it. His behavior towards it was I think confusion. He would get aggresive but not to the point where I had to really hold him back. I would nvr let that happen, but what im saying is, if he wanted to hurt the dog he could of but I knew he wouldnt and I always had control of him. I did bring him to class today b/c I wanted to talk to the trainers, I have to say he was wagging his tail the whole time almost b/c I know I said last time he wasnt. I think he did wag last time to but I wasnt 100% sure. Still waiting for click to calm to get delivered. O yea, Lizzy, I meant to say last time thank you for a GREAT answer..very informative and helpful.
Then use the ball. It doesn't have to be treats. A reinforcer has to be something the dog loves. Since you know what your dog loves, there you have it....a ball. You control his access to the ball. He takes a couple of steps alongside you....fairly near...doesn't have to be perfect...and he gets to have a few throws of the ball. Repeat..next time he has to take a couple more steps with you....then again reinforce with a little fun with the ball. Once he's coming along with you a little, make a few turns. Keep him engaged and make lots of happy noises. Make it into a game.
 

acer925

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
51
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario, Canada
#60
we just went for a walk in the driveway and sidewalk, he did ok, there was a few times when he walked next to me for more than like 3 seconds and I kept giving him little sliced up hot dogs. He got better as the walk went on. But one time he knocked the small cup of hot dogs out of my hand because I was holding the leash in the same hand. For me, thats the most difficult thing, theres no way I could click a clicker, give him treats, and hold on to the leash. I wanted to use the clicker but I couldn't do all at the same time. I hold the leash in my left hand and he walks on my right (well supposed to).
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top