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  #31  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
I've found a breeder I'd like to get a dog from in east Canada, one in the UK, and one in Austria. I've honestly given up on most US breeders except for one in Texas, one in Oklahoma, and one in Florida. I have also given up health testing as a requirement to work with simply because no one for the most part does it. *sigh* Seriously... 800 chic numbers in the history of the breed.

It's not that I don't play well with the breeders up here who do have some very nice dogs, I just don't show as often as they require, I allow my dogs to be house dogs first and foremost, and won't commit to a contract that imo is insane. I also refuse to spit upon those who choose to show UKC instead of dealing with the AKC BS that is the show ring up here. A fair number require sending a dog out with a professional handler and require the dog to show only in certain states so they aren't competing against their own stock. To those people I will scrap my whole dog hobby before I let someone control my life like that.

Anyway I digress... I'm pretty small scale on the great papillon breeder circuit. I have bred one litter two years ago and would like to breed another this year if I can justify it.
How long are you willing to wait?
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  #32  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:54 AM
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To answer the original question.

Yes, it would be nice if we were sure the eating issues were genetic. But we are not. As a breed they are notoriously fussy.

Yes, Riley starved herself out until near death. I was seriously considering spaying her over that. I was so shocked and my confidence in her was rocked. I needed to get weight on her to spay her so I started a massive regime of force feeding and giving her high fat snacks. At a year she suddenly turned around and is a voracious eater.

Sure, she has her days where she refuses to eat and I leave her at that because she has the weight on her now.

Travis, who has always been a great eater is giving us issues now. He is going on two days without eating his food. He will, however, eat snacks and treats so he is just in a snit about something or the other.

I think if you own Paps you take on eating issues, it is part of the breed. You either deal with it or you don't get them.
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  #33  
Old 03-18-2011, 07:46 AM
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I do think there is a genetic predisposition towards all sorts of behavior. I also have found that a lot of people with picky dogs have unintentionally created a monster I haven't seen many dogs which a program like this won't work for: TeachEat

I do think sometimes, probably not often picky eaters are trying to tell you something too. I knew someone who's dog was picky his whole life, would barely eat enough to survive. He had a lot of allergies and some autoimmune issues too. When he was 11 she started feeding him just green tripe and he became a great eater. Some of his allergy issues subsided and he obviously felt better. I think the foods that she had tried with him all had ingredients that made him feel bad

I don't think I have had a picky eater since I started my dogs on raw 12 years ago. I can't remember the last time I had a healthy dog refuse to eat. My Belgians for the most part will not overeat (the GSDs would/do, the corgi too) but they are all eager for dinner at night. Some of the dogs have likes/dislikes like anyone would - a few don't like raw liver or too much veggies but that's about it.

FWIW when you switch to raw there's no need to feed just one protein to start with unless you are doing an allergy elimination diet.
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  #34  
Old 03-18-2011, 09:13 AM
UniquityBelgians UniquityBelgians is offline
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I don't think I have had a picky eater since I started my dogs on raw 12 years ago. I can't remember the last time I had a healthy dog refuse to eat.
I never had issues with dogs eating raw either, back when I had my two skinny dogs. Unfortunatly though, even though they would eat it (and I'd spend up to $600 a month on it) they were just as skinny as when they were barely eating kibble. My dogs had such high metabolisms. With the high costs around here I'm having to wait until we move and have our own livestock before I can feed raw again.

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dogs with really really poor appetites that have to be enticed to eat all the time or else loses a lot of weight shouldn't be bred if that means it could be passed down to the puppies.
In my case, having a dog that would eat very lightly for 5 years of her life.. Of her puppies, with three different sires, only one ate just as lightly, and was hard to keep weight on. The rest are all monstrous eaters (like my Tandem) but still stay lean because of their high activity and high metabolisms.
I don't think it's mostly genetic; I feel that it's a behaviour that most owners create, just like I created with Visa (and her pup I mentioned).

ETA: Vi and the pup I mentioned did 2-3 hrs each of bikejoring per day, usually swam most days, and agility a few times a week. The amount they ate might have been okay if they weren't such highly active dogs with high metabolisms. I'd even had Visa's thyroid checked at the time to make sure it wasn't overactive, and the vet said she was in great condition. I often got alot of comments on her rock hard muscles. Being moderatly hypoglycemic myself, I can understand the risks of that. I guess my dogs had very healthy pancreas' at the time.
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  #35  
Old 03-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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Meh, tell my raw fed dogs that.
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  #36  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:46 PM
Michiyo-Fir Michiyo-Fir is offline
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Yes, Riley starved herself out until near death. I was seriously considering spaying her over that. I was so shocked and my confidence in her was rocked. I needed to get weight on her to spay her so I started a massive regime of force feeding and giving her high fat snacks. At a year she suddenly turned around and is a voracious eater.
Nia is becoming better too as she became older. As a puppy around 6 months or so it seemed like she never ate and she was so so so thin.

If they turn around when they're grown I wouldn't be as worried. I would be really worried if Riley or Nia's eating habits continued though and force feeding is always necessary.

Hmm I don't think just because it's a part of the breed we should give up and just not even try to improve it.

Just like there are some shy breeds (AKK) and some breeders trying very hard to breed the shy disposition out of the breed.

I'm just saying, it would be nice if breeders gave a bit of consideration to this problem too.

I personally believe it is at least partly genetic, of course I have no scientific data to back it up at all so I'm not saying I'm right.
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  #37  
Old 03-18-2011, 01:21 PM
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Nia is becoming better too as she became older. As a puppy around 6 months or so it seemed like she never ate and she was so so so thin.

If they turn around when they're grown I wouldn't be as worried. I would be really worried if Riley or Nia's eating habits continued though and force feeding is always necessary.

Hmm I don't think just because it's a part of the breed we should give up and just not even try to improve it.

Just like there are some shy breeds (AKK) and some breeders trying very hard to breed the shy disposition out of the breed.

I'm just saying, it would be nice if breeders gave a bit of consideration to this problem too.

I personally believe it is at least partly genetic, of course I have no scientific data to back it up at all so I'm not saying I'm right.
My breeder, who has 35 years in the breed, says that she has never encountered a pap who is a constant solid eater. She says all of hers will take turns in giving her grief about food. She literally doesn't give a cr@p though. If they don't eat they don't eat and she says they sort themselves out.

She is careful about the puppies though and will force if she deems necessary.

I agree with you on one thing though, if Riley was still not eating on her own she would have been spayed by now. If it is not just a phase there HAS to be something wrong with the dog. It is a pity Rileys phase lasted 6.5 months!

Oh, and on heartier news, Travis broke his strike this evening and ate 2 bowls of food.
I am convinced they are just odd dogs.
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  #38  
Old 03-18-2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by UniquityBelgians View Post
I never had issues with dogs eating raw either, back when I had my two skinny dogs. Unfortunatly though, even though they would eat it (and I'd spend up to $600 a month on it) they were just as skinny as when they were barely eating kibble. My dogs had such high metabolisms. With the high costs around here I'm having to wait until we move and have our own livestock before I can feed raw again.
Of course they were skinny - they were young Belgians Belgians tend to be fairly thin dogs who don't tend to carry much body fat (which is why they can have sighthound like complications with anesthesia). Of all the Belgians I have known in the past 16 or so years, I've only met a few fat ones. And I don't think I've ever seen an obese one. IME bitches tend to be more interested in food after they've had a litter and will put on weight more easily.

As for the cost of raw, it is very cheap for me to feed my dogs raw. I'd go broke feeding them super premium kibble
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  #39  
Old 03-18-2011, 02:07 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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I am convinced they are just odd dogs.
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  #40  
Old 03-18-2011, 05:00 PM
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