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Old 02-11-2011, 05:04 AM
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Default 2x2 weave poles by Susan Garrett

Anyone else tried this method? We are taking Riley's weave training from this standpoint to compare the difference between that and your conventional weave training methods. I am quite excited to get started.

Thoughts

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Old 02-11-2011, 05:55 AM
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Yeah

I have vids in the sports forum somewhere with all three dogs' weaves.

Kim learned by channel/weave-o-matic

Web started to learn by channel but didn't get it which is when I learn about 2x2 and taught that on my own

Mira learned 2x2 from the get-go


Mira's weaves are MUCH better than the other two (pretty much completely independent...I can just stand there 30' away and send her in...before or after...or run...or or or) but honestly it's deceiving because she's more confident at least partially because I'm a better trainer now and set my criteria better, vs. say Kim who learned in a group class environment which is more stressful then I had to go back and actually teach her because she didn't really know...
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Yeah

I have vids in the sports forum somewhere with all three dogs' weaves.

Kim learned by channel/weave-o-matic

Web started to learn by channel but didn't get it which is when I learn about 2x2 and taught that on my own

Mira learned 2x2 from the get-go


Mira's weaves are MUCH better than the other two (pretty much completely independent...I can just stand there 30' away and send her in...before or after...or run...or or or) but honestly it's deceiving because she's more confident at least partially because I'm a better trainer now and set my criteria better, vs. say Kim who learned in a group class environment which is more stressful then I had to go back and actually teach her because she didn't really know...
That is quite interesting. My trainer says he new dog, who was trained 2x2, is much more reliable then her older dog who was trained channel. I can totally see why. 2x2 makes so much sense. Correct entry each time and it is just a series of entries.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:19 AM
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Yep, though not from the start yet. Kaiden and Dekka were shaped for weaves. Dekka 'knows' how to weave very very well. LOL our biggest issue is in trials when she is so high that any behaviour that involves slowing down gets dicey. Ie we fly over the table (or run past it) don't stick contacts, and miss poles in the weaves as she is going way too fast. Bad dog

Kat and Dash will learn by 2x2s.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:45 AM
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Yeah I won't say every future dog will learn by some form of 2x2 because I don't know what dogs I may have down the line or what other ideas will be out there by then, but for me, my current dogs, and my training style, a 2x2 type weave training is very intuitive. Web's retraining was by "true" 2x2, as was Kim's entry re-training. Mira's was a slight variant on 2x2 simply because I understood the method well enough by the time she learned that I was able to adapt it a bit for her. She learned so fast I had to stop her and take a break because her understanding surpassed what I was comfortable with her body doing (age, or lack thereof).
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:25 AM
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Izzie is learning 2x2s right now, though we're taking a break because someone threw out my indoor poles and i only have my outdoor ones and the ground is currently frozen solid.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:19 PM
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I love the 2x2 method, I have everything from pugs to border collies in my agility classes and we have them weaving with solid entries in a very short period of time.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
I love the 2x2 method, I have everything from pugs to border collies in my agility classes and we have them weaving with solid entries in a very short period of time.
I really, really wish I could see a seminar or something where some very different breeds were being trained with them. I went to one 2x2 seminar, and it really wasn't.

Meg's weaves were shaped, and I would say are about 90% of where I'd like them to be. She rarely, if ever, misses a pole or even in entry, in practice or trials. I'd like to feel I have more flexibility in where I send her from for the poles. I'm happy with her speed.

I bought a set of 2x2, I watched the video and took notes, and went to a seminar...and it totally didn't work for us. I though I'd love them; I like breaking things down, I like drilling.

My friend who loaned me the video has trained a couple of his Cavaliers with the method fairly successfully. His words, when he handed me the DVD, were "Watch this, take very careful notes - and then accept that you don't have a border collie and you are going to have to change some things."

I don't doubt for an instant the method can work for most dogs (I'd never say all for anything). I am very frustrated by how difficult most of the work would be for my very not-a-border-collie. She is of course missing some bits and pieces of the "stuff you should have before" (she is never going to care about tugging enough for it to be a reward; she has mild interest in chasing a food bag, and just a bit more than zero in chasing a toy). But I finally decided I can work entries in other ways that don't involve spending months teaching my six year old dog to want to work like a BC.

I'm not sure what I'd do with my next dog; without a seriously experienced 2x2 trainer to work with, I have to say I'd be inclined to go back to shaping like I did for Meg.

I'll be interested to hear how things go for you!
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:08 PM
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Didn't train it that way...I have very strong, drivey weaves from Lucy through using and fading guides. I really don't believe there is one end-all, be-all way to teach the weaves. Every dog is different, and you have to work the way that makes your dog the most successful.

My trainer introduced us to guides, channels, weave-o-matics, and the 2x2 method. Then based on the dog and the trainer, she helped select the best method to go with.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:33 PM
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The other issue is (not likely in BB case) but 2x2 require greatest effort in the way of training and timing. Weaveomatics and guides in particular the least. THerefore those methods are still the most common in class settings.

2x2s strong point isn't the drivey weaves, its the amazingly independent weaves. But then again it was designed by a Canadian. And gamblers (ie distance skills) are paramount in AAC. Not only do you need good weaves, you need them at great distances and at crazy angles where you can't help the dog find them.

So it also depends on the level of independence you want/need from your dog.
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