What makes a good breeder in your mind?

[RD]

Originally Posted by corgipower

As long as they're not kennel blind.

This.

The majority of the people I know who breed their pet dogs without doing any sort of showing or performance/real work with them? Kennel blind. They think their dogs are the best dogs in the world and they turn a blind eye to any fault because they love their dogs so much.

These people take amazing care of their dogs and are certainly a better bet than buying a puppy out of a cardboard box in someone's garage, but they aren't breeding for the betterment of the breed. I wouldn't buy from someone breeding pets. Now perhaps with a toy breed it would be a different situation, but honestly I bought my Papillon from someone who bred her pets and he wasn't the most healthy or stable dog I've met.

I agree with Dekka about health testing in working dogs. I like to see health testing done, however in my breed I wouldn't insist on it if I knew the dog and the lines they came from. Some are healthier than others, and when you get a puppy it IS a crap shoot.

[Zoom]

Temperament, health testing, socialization and WHY are they crossing these particular dogs? I like breeders who aren't afraid to detail exactly what they are going for, what they are looking to improve upon and what they are hoping to retain. For a dog that has a working history (huskies, GSD's, Aussies, etc), I want to see their breeding stock with awards in their appropriate venues. I don't care if your Aussie has numerous agility titles, what I'm looking for is a dog that still retains the brains and instinct necessary to be able to herd. I might be nothing more than a hobby herder, but I want those brains and instincts to remain intact.

If I'm looking for a working breeder, then I'm not going to care if they don't have alphabet soup on their dogs, as long as they can prove the dogs are good at what their jobs. And still health test.

[Doggie07]

1. Health testing.
2. Very knowledgable about the breed or breeds they are breeding. Knows what makes the breed tick, the breed's purpose, the breed's temperament, the breed's structure and more.
3. Their stock lives in a clean enviroment
4. They take their dogs to the vet and don't "doctor" on them
5. Matches pup's personality with buyers
6. Encourages questions
7. Encourages contacting them in the future
8. Titles their dogs. If they breed herding dogs, I expect some herding titles.
9. Screens buyers
10. Encourages taking pups to training classes
11. Makes sure their stock is 2 years and older before breeding
12. Has some type of sell contract
13. Has health guarantees
14. Does not charge ridiculous prices!

That's what I think of right at the top of my head. I'm still learning.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Doggie07

8. Titles their dogs. If they breed herding dogs, I expect some herding titles.

I'm curious, what if they are just a rancher breeding dogs from his working ranch stock. Dogs that do that day in day out as a job and not as a game or for a title. Do you still think they need to go compete in herding events to be considered worthy of breeding?

[Doggie07]

Originally Posted by Linds

I'm curious, what if they are just a rancher breeding dogs from his working ranch stock. Dogs that do that day in day out as a job and not as a game or for a title. Do you still think they need to go compete in herding events to be considered worthy of breeding?

I think so. If they compete in herding events with other herding dogs, it shows how good they are compared to other herding dogs.

For example:
Let's say Border Collie A is in an event. The rancher's dog is Border Collie B. Border Collie A is a champ and excellent at herding. BC B is the rancher's dog and has never been in a herding event. So let's say BC B beats BC A. If you were a BC buyer, wouldn't you be impressed?

But of course, that's little ole me's thinking. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm giving it a shot. I know I have a lot to learn. A lot.

[Zoom]

There are plenty of dogs that excel in herding trials that aren't worth their weight in kibble when it comes to actually working on a ranch. So I wouldn't necessarily skew my opinion one way or another just from watching one trial. The dog could have had an off day, a bad draw of stock (since they also judge on style and not just getting the job done) or any number of things. Many of the dogs that I admire the most very rarely saw the inside of a trialing pen, they and their owners were too busy working in real life.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Doggie07

I think so. If they compete in herding events with other herding dogs, it shows how good they are compared to other herding dogs.

For example:
Let's say Border Collie A is in an event. The rancher's dog is Border Collie B. Border Collie A is a champ and excellent at herding. BC B is the rancher's dog and has never been in a herding event. So let's say BC B beats BC A. If you were a BC buyer, wouldn't you be impressed?

But of course, that's little ole me's thinking. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm giving it a shot. I know I have a lot to learn. A lot.

No, I really wouldn't be impressed and would more than likely still go with the old rancher and his untitled dogs

Herding trials are a sport rather than a full time job. Herding breeds were created to do that job and because of their natural ability at it they can compete in the sport of herding. But at the end of the day they were created for the job.

Herding trials are more stylized rather than real life work. Dog A is a better proven sport dog not a better proven ranch hand. Dog B is doing the job is was created for and doesn't need a title to prove it.

Not saying one is better than the other, just that titles don't always make the dog and if you're worried about their ability to work seeing them do what they do is a better way to decide in my book than picking the titled dog

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by Linds

I'm curious, what if they are just a rancher breeding dogs from his working ranch stock. Dogs that do that day in day out as a job and not as a game or for a title. Do you still think they need to go compete in herding events to be considered worthy of breeding?

A sport dog is good at moving a handful of well broke sheep around a pen for a few minutes, usually on fairly flat terrain with little to no natural obstacles. But that doesn't at all show that he can move large flocks that may not be entirely cooperative day in and day out over rocky hills, through woods and across water.

And if the trials he does are only on sheep and ducks (other stock in competitions is rare), but you have a cattle/goat/goose farm, that's not entirely a helpful assessment either.

Meanwhile the ranch dog might not be well suited toward trialing - he knows his farm, he knows his stock, and at the end of the day what matters is that he gets the job done. If he goes "off contact" because the stock needs pressure removed in order for them to go where they need to go ~ which does happen, that's great IRL, but will lose serious points in trial. Some dogs get in a trial arena and look at you like you're nuts...they know this ain't real and they don't see the point of playing. Some dogs might not be as comfortable working in a new environment, surrounded by spectators and strange dogs, which again is fine for a dog that needs to work on your farm with your stock and your other dogs, but won't make for a good trial dog.

[darkchild16]

Originally Posted by Doggie07

I think so. If they compete in herding events with other herding dogs, it shows how good they are compared to other herding dogs.

For example:
Let's say Border Collie A is in an event. The rancher's dog is Border Collie B. Border Collie A is a champ and excellent at herding. BC B is the rancher's dog and has never been in a herding event. So let's say BC B beats BC A. If you were a BC buyer, wouldn't you be impressed?

But of course, that's little ole me's thinking. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm giving it a shot. I know I have a lot to learn. A lot.

No Why would I be impressed by a working dog beating out a sport dog. I would be really leary of a worker whose dog couldnt beat a dog who does something for fun.

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by darkchild16

I would be really leary of a worker whose dog couldnt beat a dog who does something for fun.

I wouldn't. They're not sufficiently interchangeable.