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Old 11-01-2010, 02:10 PM
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Default From flat to sit

I just watch Linds's Traveler vid and realized that I forgot to ask this question. Mu does NOT get that she can go from flat to sit. I've tried luring it (without food) and it works great but as soon as I start fading the lure she gets confused and frustrated and starts doing dead dog. It's entertaining, but wrong and I don't know how to fix it. She will also go up if I say sit and lean forward slightly (I have no idea why that works) but again, if I tell her to sit and stay still she will do nothing.

And I don't lean forward when I tell her to sit normally...I checked LOL. Help please? We have to be able to do this for class and we suck.
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:16 PM
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She sits up when you lean forward because you are leaning into her "space" and she's reading your intentions.

Other than that, I'm no help, because Linds also reminded me that Enzo doesn't know this, and I'm in the same boat you are
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:19 PM
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Frodo can do this with a hand signal, but not verbal. Probably because the hand signal is really self-explanatory (Palm facing the ceiling, moving upward ). I tried forever to teach this to Frodo and he didn't get it, then I left it for about six months and he learned it in a day. Same with down. He's an odd one.

I realize that this probably did not help at all
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:23 PM
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How do you go about fading your lure? I like to say the verbal, pause for like three seconds to give him a chance to see if he knows it, then give the hand signal (or use the lure). You don't really fade the hand signal you just drop it all together when the dog is repeatedly going into the sit during the pause before your hand signal.


If you're already doing that...if you give the cue and just wait long enough will he eventually try sitting? If so you can capture it. Only signal once, then just wait.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:38 PM
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Pretty much what Maxy said, though I do work on making the hand single less exaggerated before I attempted to get rid of it all together. I'm still using a hand signal for 'stand' even though for the most part Traveler will down and sit without any hand signal. Stand was taught using a heavier lure than anything else and it's sticking around longer than I would like

But, for example-I'm not still bending at the waist and luring down with my hand when I drop the down hand signal. I've faded it to the point of it just being a quick hand movement.

So if it were me I would work on seeing if she gets the idea with less of a lure and continue with that until you are getting a sit consistently and then worry about the lure. Also, keep in mind her body is learn what exactly you want it to do and more she does it lure or not the easier she's going to find it. It's not a muscle building exercise for nothing Kaylee still would prefer never to do it, too much work for her

But, before you do any of this you should be getting a video of 'dead dog' in training. That's the most important step
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:36 PM
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Buster and Quinn can do it, Quinn is fading the hand signal now but stil does need it, even at a distance. I started with luring with food, then without and then added a bit more distance bit by bit. I don't see me fading out the hand signal for a while yet.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taqroy View Post
She will also go up if I say sit and lean forward slightly (I have no idea why that works) but again, if I tell her to sit and stay still she will do nothing.
Think of it this way: Right now, your cue is to lean forward slightly. You want to switch it to a verbal cue. Switching cues is very easy.

The way I would do it is this: Stand still and give the verbal cue "sit." Wait 1 second, then lean into her and click/treat her for sitting up. Repeat, waiting the same amount of time each time. Do this 10 times. Then give the verbal cue "sit" just like before, but do not lean into her. If she sits up, give a HUGE jackpot reward, and end your session - go play or something. Otherwise, wait about 3 seconds after the cue, and if she doesn't do it, just walk away. Then come back later and do 10 more reps of verbal cue + leaning, then test the verbal cue alone again.

The problem with "testing" it every time (i.e. give the verbal cue, wait to see if the dog will do it, and if not then leaning in) is that the dog will learn not to bother trying to figure out the verbal cue, but to just be patient and wait for the visual cue. With most dogs this method will work eventually, but it will be slower in the long run.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
Frodo can do this with a hand signal, but not verbal. Probably because the hand signal is really self-explanatory (Palm facing the ceiling, moving upward ). I tried forever to teach this to Frodo and he didn't get it, then I left it for about six months and he learned it in a day. Same with down. He's an odd one.

I realize that this probably did not help at all
LOL. Frodo and Mu sound a lot alike. She will sit there and stare at me until I give up, then I come back to whatever it is a month later and she acts like she knew it the whole time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
So if it were me I would work on seeing if she gets the idea with less of a lure and continue with that until you are getting a sit consistently and then worry about the lure. Also, keep in mind her body is learn what exactly you want it to do and more she does it lure or not the easier she's going to find it. It's not a muscle building exercise for nothing Kaylee still would prefer never to do it, too much work for her

But, before you do any of this you should be getting a video of 'dead dog' in training. That's the most important step
I've been working on making my lure less....lure-y. I don't mind luring it until she gets it, she just usually picks up on things right away so I thought I was doing it wrong. Lol. Thank you for the help! I was very impressed with Traveler's vid!!

I'll see what I can do. She defaults to it when she doesn't know what I want so it should be pretty easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
Think of it this way: Right now, your cue is to lean forward slightly. You want to switch it to a verbal cue. Switching cues is very easy.

The way I would do it is this: Stand still and give the verbal cue "sit." Wait 1 second, then lean into her and click/treat her for sitting up. Repeat, waiting the same amount of time each time. Do this 10 times. Then give the verbal cue "sit" just like before, but do not lean into her. If she sits up, give a HUGE jackpot reward, and end your session - go play or something. Otherwise, wait about 3 seconds after the cue, and if she doesn't do it, just walk away. Then come back later and do 10 more reps of verbal cue + leaning, then test the verbal cue alone again.

The problem with "testing" it every time (i.e. give the verbal cue, wait to see if the dog will do it, and if not then leaning in) is that the dog will learn not to bother trying to figure out the verbal cue, but to just be patient and wait for the visual cue. With most dogs this method will work eventually, but it will be slower in the long run.
Thanks lizzy!! I'm going to start working it this way tonight. I'm pretty sure (given past experience) that she would sit and wait for - ev - er for me to give her the physical cue....or just play dead.
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Old 11-02-2010, 06:15 PM
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I'm pretty sure (given past experience) that she would sit and wait for - ev - er for me to give her the physical cue....or just play dead.
Oh yeah, they'll wait a LONG time for the physical cue.... A few years ago I became very good at teaching them to wait for it, until a better trainer pointed out what I was doing. I still accidently do it sometimes, it's a difficult habit to be aware of and break.
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Old 11-05-2010, 07:54 PM
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Well, Enzo has learned to sit up from down. It actually went fairly quickly. I did what you were doing taq, and stepping into her space while giving and exaggerated swing up of my arm and saying sit. Then I stopped stepping into her space and started just swinging my arm up, and she got it fairly quickly after that. We're still working on it at more than six feet away, but she's got it down at that distance pretty well.
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