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  #11  
Old 10-01-2010, 10:57 AM
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Chocolate-Doxie Chocolate-Doxie is offline
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Auggie is five years old, has a rally-obedience title, and several agility titles - so no, I don't need to teach him to down next to me, do a down in heel, or do a down-stay.

Returning Auggie to where he was when I told him "down" does nothing but give us both a lot of exercise, which is fun, but not what I have in mind.

Thanks though.

Obviously those titles don't mean squat if you are unable to get your dog to go down where he is standing rather then running over to you.

You have to show the dog what you want in order for him to understand what it is you are teaching him.

I am sorry I offered my suggestion. I would say you obviously know how to train judging from your dogs titles, but then again, I have my dog trained to go down whenever and where ever I want, and you don't.

as I said before......good luck
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2010, 11:16 AM
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He simply doesn't have down on stimulus control. He has attached your being right in front of him with the cue. That IS part of the cue. So, you just have to un-do or separate your relative position to him from lying down. When he was first learning to lie down, you probably always stood in front of him so being in front was closely paired with lying down...as one behavior.

What I'd do is utilize a lot of capturing of the behavior. If you use a clicker, and he happens to lie down someplace in the room, away from you, watch for that and reinforce, attaching your verbal cue at the same time or just a split second before he's all the way down.

Another thing you could do is stand in front of him for a while, asking him to down, but turn your body a little sideways, then work up to turning the other way a little and stepping back just one step, returning to reinforce him. Vary your position in relation to him just a little different each time...and gradually....very gradually build up a teensy bit more distance when you ask for a down. Pretty soon, you'll be 2 or 3 feet from him, turned sideways to the left, another time to the right, maybe squatting down one time or sitting in a chair... and he'll be able to lie down. But make these changes gradually enough that nothing really throws him. If he doesn't get it, go back to where he did get it and work back up to a higher degree of difficulty. Don't forget to reinforce each time he gives you a correct response....for now.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2010, 06:26 PM
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Beanie Beanie is offline
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Originally Posted by Chocolate-Doxie View Post
Obviously those titles don't mean squat if you are unable to get your dog to go down where he is standing rather then running over to you.
No, those titles mean the dog knows how to down in heel, and down on a table in front of me... not "down" whenever I tell him to, irrelevant to where I'm standing, even if he's in a high drive situation like chasing sheep. Doberluv has it - what Auggie has learned is that his location to me, being either in front of me or in heel, is part of the cue, because that's exactly what he has been taught, and exactly what has been required of him until now.
So teaching him to down next to me and stay in down while I walk away, and teach him to down while I'm walking with him in heel - as your post said - won't help address this problem, since he already knows how to do exactly that. All that would do is reinforce what the dog already knows and sees as part of the command "down," which is being right next to me.


By the way, you might want to read the first rule of the forum rules. =>
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2010, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate-Doxie View Post
Obviously those titles don't mean squat if you are unable to get your dog to go down where he is standing rather then running over to you.

I would say you obviously know how to train judging from your dogs titles, but then again, I have my dog trained to go down whenever and where ever I want, and you don't.
You win 1,000 internetz for your incredibly rude post. Congratulations! Would you like them in coupon form or delivered directly to the end that does your posting for you?

Oh, crap, I probably just made an equally rude post. Oh well. I guess you're a bad influence on me.

Beanie, I may have missed you posting about it, but have you tried tethering?
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2010, 11:44 PM
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How about just start with a whole new, fresh command? It might be easier and faster for him to understand?
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2010, 10:33 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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He just needs to learn what down really means...not that it includes you standing a particular way. Mix things up and gradually add some distance as you vary position and he'll get onto it. Eventually, you’ll be able to stand across the yard from him and ask for a down or a sit. (practice both)

I've had to this with dogs before that had the same issues...sometimes with sit rather than down. Or any number of behaviors where an unwanted sequence of behaviors preceding or even coming after the desired behavior, is inadvertently learned and attached (in the dog’s mind) to the wanted behavior. You just have to break up the stuff that's “sticking” to the one single behavior you want, and toss the other stuff out of the way so those things are not viewed as part and parcel of the behavior. That requires that you mix things up and gradually increase distance and relative positions to each other, locations, contexts... so coming close to you to lie down doesn’t happen every time. That’s how that part of the behavior divorces itself from the down.

Changing cues can help but it won’t put the behavior on stimulus control. You still have to do those other things to single out the one behavior you want. (because cues don’t drive behavior) The same cue you’ve been using can take on a new and “abridged” meaning as easily as learning a new cue, imo. I know they talk about changing cues when one becomes poisoned. And I’ve experimented with this…(trying a new cue and sticking with the old cue), but showing the dog how that old cue is now very associated with something of novel and high value. In other words, I’ve found that it doesn’t seem to offer a significant benefit to switch cues. But you can if you want to. Some people find it helpful. But tethering, or switching cues won’t let you off the hook. LOL. You still have to do the training.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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