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  #31  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:00 AM
Blue_Dog
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My friend uses the clicker and it works wonders. I know it can be a great tool, it just wasn't for Sam. Besides that Sam learned extremely fast without the clicker, by 12-13 weeks old he had all of his basic commands down and a couple of extra tricks too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Also, for those who had issues clicker training, did you load the clicker first? (ie click treat click treat before starting to train with it) Just curious.
Yes! Over and over and over and over! He just didn't get it. I tried for a couple of weeks and it just wasn't for him.

As for 'how can you have a puppy and not crate it!' I have no idea! It's just ridiculous to expect a puppy to know their manners and to be able to hold it in at night. However Sam was a miracle puppy and besides a couple of accidents and a few shoes he didn't need it. My Mom was home all day pretty much to be able to let him out frequently while I was at school and as for night time, he learned quickly to come and ask someone to let him out. And before he learned how to ask, all of his accidents were by the back door (where he is let out to the backyard).
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  #32  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:06 AM
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Have never used either. Have no problem with people that do. Only people that abuse crates by keeping their dog in them far too long.
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  #33  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:34 AM
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I don't clicker train, never have probably never will. We have had dogs growing up and although I trained them I don't think clickers were available then. If someone uses one that's fine.

As for crate training Lola was the first dog I crate trained. Back in the day I don't think that their was such a thing as a crate for a dog. Lola was not crate trained before I had her and she did not like the crate for the first few weeks but after that she was fine and she goes in her crate on her own when it's time for bed. That is the only time she is crated now but when she had SA she was crated when I had to go out including when I was at work she would be crated for a few hours before someone came over to take her out for a walk. After they walked her they would leave her out of the crate.

Now when I go to work she is out of the crate when I leave so the only time she is in the crate is at night.
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  #34  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:40 AM
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I don't use either. T-Bone is crate-trained, however and doesn't put up a fuss when she needs to be crated. She is afraid of the clicker. I tried to get her used to it, but the sound makes her uneasy, so I just don't use it.
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  #35  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolas Dad View Post
I don't clicker train, never have probably never will. We have had dogs growing up and although I trained them I don't think clickers were available then. If someone uses one that's fine.

As for crate training Lola was the first dog I crate trained. Back in the day I don't think that their was such a thing as a crate for a dog. Lola was not crate trained before I had her and she did not like the crate for the first few weeks but after that she was fine and she goes in her crate on her own when it's time for bed. That is the only time she is crated now but when she had SA she was crated when I had to go out including when I was at work she would be crated for a few hours before someone came over to take her out for a walk. After they walked her they would leave her out of the crate.

Now when I go to work she is out of the crate when I leave so the only time she is in the crate is at night.
Well, they've been around since at least the early 60's. (maybe you're really old. LOL) BF Skinner first suggested them for training dogs around that time. When I was a kid, we had those things. They were called crickets and they were sold as a little toy for kids to go around annoying their parents.

I don't believe clickers won't work on some dogs. Clickers are nothing but classical conditioning and operant/classical conditioning is how every organism with a brain learns, whether they like it or not. LOL. You don't really have to prime it per say, but if a click is followed by something really good, consistently, regularly, frequently....that click becomes a secondary reinforcer. (or punisher) It can't NOT become a secondary reinforcer. It's how the brain works in every mammal. Something else was missing in the mix. I don't know what, but something.

But, that is not to say that a dog can't be trained without one. It just speeds things up and makes communication clearer. And if they're not for everybody, it isn't a big deal at all. I only started playing around with them with my more recent dogs, over the past years. It's just fun. But I certainly don't use a clicker for everything. Half the time, I'm just not in a convenient situation. It's only when I'm making a point of teaching my dogs something new....which, I don't do that much with my dogs now. They're old hands at most things I need from them, being seniors.
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  #36  
Old 07-25-2010, 10:31 AM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Also, for those who had issues clicker training, did you load the clicker first? (ie click treat click treat before starting to train with it) Just curious.
I did, she then proceeded to look at us like we were crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
That's not what I was saying at all. :/

I'm saying that clickers AREN'T helpful if you don't plan to do training. As in, they're very helpful in force-free training... helpful, not essential. Particularly beyond the basic stuff. I did not say "if you don't use a clicker you can't train your dog!" Obviously.
Again, I do apologize. I misunderstood your post

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Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
Crates...I couldn't see being without one. I guess if you can raise a puppy without one without the puppy tearing things up, more power to you. I'd like to hear how you do it without a crate, though. Where does the puppy go when you leave the house? During the night?
Rosey stayed wherever she wanted to be when we left. Usually she would start out in the living room, then end up sleeping on somebody's bed. At night, she would (and still does) wander from room to room (she can open doors) making sure "her kids" were safe.
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  #37  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:05 AM
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You know, something to keep in mind I think, is that for the people saying they don't use a clicker for training, you more than likely use a voice marker instead. And that's all a clicker is, a marker. I know that after I learned how to use a clicker I really became wise to the fact that I used "YES!" very consistently whenever they did what I wanted and then rewarded.

So while some of you who say you don't "clicker train" probably do "marker train"
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  #38  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:34 AM
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I don't use a clicker and don't use crates anymore.

When we had Teddy a crate was nessecary because if he got bored while you were away... you'd come home to one less cushion on the couch lol. so he had to be crated.

Beezer and Belle I started them off in crates and they did fine. so they understand crates and aren't afraid of them (although if Beezer had to stay away at the vets the crate would be the least of my worries. He would be a wreck because he had to be away from us for more than a few hours and feel like we werent coming back to get him. he's very sensitive that way) but at this point we don't have any need to crate them when we leave. they usually end up on our bed and sleep the whole time as far as I can tell. sometimes when we get home they don't even get up to greet us and are STILL asleep in our bed lol.

I tried clicker training with Teddy... it just seemed like one more thing I had to carry everywhere I went and I was often forgetting it so it was pretty useless for me because I'm forgetful lol. I don't use it with Beezer and Belle either... but I also don't do a whole lot of training besides the basic be polite type things
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  #39  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:41 AM
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Wow kinda rude first replies. Its a typical thread I see on other dog forums all the time.

I HATE clickers. Absolutely hate them. And I it annoys me when people act like clicker training is the end all be all (im not pointing out or refering to anyone one this site or thread). I have never ever used a clicker and never ever will. I too found it got in the way and was just some pointless thing that got lost in my purse because of lack of use. My dogs are very well trained and didn't need a clicker to be that way.

I have used crates to help house train puppies. Sawyer was the first puppy to ever actually stay in bed with me through the night. Puppies before I felt I couldn't trust not to roam my room and have accidents so they were crated at night or when I wasent home.

This was for their own safety more so than me not wanting my stuff chewed or pee'd on. And honestly and I don't care if it offends anyone. I find it really really stupid to allow a puppy loose in any room when no one is home. So many things could go wrong. And im not going to list them all. Its common sense.

Maggie May came from a puppy mill rescue. She lived her first year and a half of her life outdoors only (including the rescue). She prefers her crate (with the door open) to any peice of furniture. Its also too small for the boys too squeeze in and pester her.
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  #40  
Old 07-25-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaloreyAnimal View Post
Crate nor do I clicker train.

And I do not understand the big deal about that. I have mentioned it in a couple places, and things get switched onto how I must not be a very good owner/trainer and I must start both.

I tried to use a clicker in the past, and I just found it got in the way of what I could already do fine without the use of a 'click'. And crating, I just don't see the need for my dogs, and alot of times other dogs. I do see how crates can be useful for certain areas and certain dogs (For one example: Showing; wouldn't want your dogs on a lead getting in the way, possible tangeling itself in equipment and such.).

Now that I sat to think about it while writing this post, I am seeing how crates can be more useful then I originally thought, still not something I would use, and can't say I'm in full support in certain areas, but I did say, "Oh, well that makes sense as to why people use them more now" and such.

And also, just more of an opinion here.
Not quite sure the point of the post, because it's a common knowledge that Chazzers are mostly of the opinions that crates and clickers are both valuable tools, but neither are required to be a good dog owner. Some dogs don't need crates, some dogs don't need or benefit from clickers. Some thrive using both, some need one or the other. *shrug*

People have opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.
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