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  #21  
Old 07-24-2010, 09:56 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
If you don't plan on training, boarding, or vetting your dogs... clickers and crates really aren't going to help you at all.
Well I was all agreeing with your post... until I got to this part. I can understand you wanting to use a clicker for training YOUR dog, yes, but dogs CAN be trained without one. My dog is perfectly trained, and we did not use the clicker. So to say that if you do not plan on training your dog, a clicker is not going to help you... seems like you are saying that you can ONLY train a dog with a clicker. Which is just silly, and rather offensive actually, if I am reading this right. If I am not please forgive me, I would not be surprised actually.

And my dog is perfectly fine at the vet... and at the groomers, and being boarded, and was never crate trained.

I honestly do not think that crates and clickers are for everybody. I would never look down on somebody who USES those things, and would expect the same. I could see if my dog was horribly mannered and not trained, but she is not.

Actually, in some cases, I think some people really should not use crates. Some people use crate training in place of the dogs having house manners, because the dog is in the crate so often. So when the dog IS out, it is horribly mannered, because it was never trained house manners since it had the crate.

Ok I have no clue if that made any sense. If not, I apologize, I have gone off my meds for the last 2 days, since I forgot them at home.. and am feeling the effects now
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:01 PM
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JacksonsMom JacksonsMom is offline
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I only crated Jackson for about, oh, maybe around 5-6 weeks when I first brought him home. I worked really hard... he never took to it, nor ever needed it around the house. I would put the crate on my bed at nighttime with him because I knew I wanted him sleeping in the bed with me at some point. However, he goes to professional groomers and was always fine with it and never put up a fuss. I think each dog is different. Some dogs I would never leave alone in the house, LOL, but Jackson has proved himself to always be trustworthy.

Clicker training. I didn't see the big deal about it when first learning. I taught Jackson sit, down, stay, roll over, 'bang bang', shake, and maybe 5 other tricks without it. I decided I'd give it a whirl. I was totally amazed. Jackson learned everything sooo much faster. Rather than having to have the new trick repeated 15-20 times, with the clicker he understood incredibly faster what I wanted him to do, and now usually learns a new trick within 5-10 repetitions. He looks SO forward now to learning new tricks and offers me behaviors on his own. I love the clicker. He probably doubled his trick repertoire in a months time after the clicker.

However, I don't judge anybody for not using these tools, or using them. To be perfectly honest, when I first saw a video on YouTube of the clicker, I thought it was sooo silly. I was like wth. Is that stupid thing really necessary? ha... boy, I proved myself wrong.

Also, I don't, like, carry the clicker on me all the time. Once Jackson learns a new command or trick and understands/knows it... the clicker is no longer necessary.
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Last edited by JacksonsMom; 07-24-2010 at 10:11 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:13 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Well I was all agreeing with your post... until I got to this part. I can understand you wanting to use a clicker for training YOUR dog, yes, but dogs CAN be trained without one. My dog is perfectly trained, and we did not use the clicker. So to say that if you do not plan on training your dog, a clicker is not going to help you... seems like you are saying that you can ONLY train a dog with a clicker. Which is just silly, and rather offensive actually, if I am reading this right. If I am not please forgive me, I would not be surprised actually.

And my dog is perfectly fine at the vet... and at the groomers, and being boarded, and was never crate trained.

I honestly do not think that crates and clickers are for everybody. I would never look down on somebody who USES those things, and would expect the same. I could see if my dog was horribly mannered and not trained, but she is not.

Actually, in some cases, I think some people really should not use crates. Some people use crate training in place of the dogs having house manners, because the dog is in the crate so often. So when the dog IS out, it is horribly mannered, because it was never trained house manners since it had the crate.

Ok I have no clue if that made any sense. If not, I apologize, I have gone off my meds for the last 2 days, since I forgot them at home.. and am feeling the effects now
I agree with a lot of this. We didn't use crates in the "olden" days and our dogs were okay at the vets...maybe a little stressed, but not bonkers. They seemed to take things pretty much in stride. But of course, not all dogs are like that. So, it's not a bad idea to at least get a pup use to one. I also don't agree with leaving a dog in a "box" for long stretches of time. I see it as a tool and a safety thing when safety is needed. Some dogs are fine in a puppy proofed room, some will eat the walls. It just depends. Dogs that previously had some kind of frightening experience with crates would probably be better off without one, unless they can have their minds changed. Yeah, of course there are variables to everything.

We also never used clickers back when I was young and my dogs were still trained, well mannered and learned a lot of things. It's just another way to train and very effective and quick in a lot of instances. Some people really enjoy using them, they're fun for many... but no, they're not necessary to train a dog.

To each his own...

I think the op might have a misconception, which prompted this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong. When people post things, praising people like Koehler and Milan or extolling the virtues of coercive training, lots of us come out of the woodwork and suggest clicker training as an alternative. It's not the only alternative, but it's getting very popular and is based on some viable learning science. Just a thought...
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  #24  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:34 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessLough View Post
Well I was all agreeing with your post... until I got to this part. I can understand you wanting to use a clicker for training YOUR dog, yes, but dogs CAN be trained without one. My dog is perfectly trained, and we did not use the clicker. So to say that if you do not plan on training your dog, a clicker is not going to help you... seems like you are saying that you can ONLY train a dog with a clicker.

That's not what I was saying at all. :/

I'm saying that clickers AREN'T helpful if you don't plan to do training. As in, they're very helpful in force-free training... helpful, not essential. Particularly beyond the basic stuff. I did not say "if you don't use a clicker you can't train your dog!" Obviously.
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  #25  
Old 07-24-2010, 10:34 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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Different methods work for different dogs (and people!).

I believe that if you're not comfortable using a specific training tool or method, it's going to affect how well it works on your dogs.

Strider wasn't clicker trained or crated. He never needed it. Yet, he's a highly trained service animal.

Charlie is clicker trained and crated. Without a crate our home would be destroyed. lol. The clicker was the absolute best tool for communicating with him. I wish we had realized it when he was younger.
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  #26  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:12 PM
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Lizmo Lizmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
That's not what I was saying at all. :/

I'm saying that clickers AREN'T helpful if you don't plan to do training. As in, they're very helpful in force-free training... helpful, not essential. Particularly beyond the basic stuff. I did not say "if you don't use a clicker you can't train your dog!" Obviously.
Okay, thanks for explaining that more. Like Jess, I wasn't fully understanding what you said either. lol

I haven't used a clicker that much. I don't think it's necessary, it's just another way to train. There are lots of ways to train. It's just about what works for you and your dog that allows you to make progress.

Crates...I couldn't see being without one. I guess if you can raise a puppy without one without the puppy tearing things up, more power to you. I'd like to hear how you do it without a crate, though. Where does the puppy go when you leave the house? During the night?
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  #27  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:22 PM
AGonzalez AGonzalez is offline
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I don't use clickers at all. To me, they're more work than they're worth. I'm not going to talk about my training methods because it will open a can of worms, but it is highly effective.

Crates...I wish my dogs had been crate trained from puppies, but they weren't. I got them as older puppies (8 months and 1 year) and neither have been crated.
Normally that's not an issue for me, except, we're moving overseas and they will have to be crated for at least 12 hours, if not more. So this should be interesting.
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  #28  
Old 07-24-2010, 11:23 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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Clickers are very very useful for shaping behaviors. I don't know how I'd do shaping exercises without them to be honest. I just looked at Summer and had her give me an enthusiastic high five. This is a simple behavior yes, but from a dog that doesn't ever paw at anything and initially would freak out if you tried to get her to touch your hand. So I built up the behavior with clicking step by step. This is an overly simplistic example but shaping to me is made much easier by a clicker. You could mark it with a 'yes' but clickers make everything so concisely and simply, which helps you be more clear to the dog.

As long as people are open to the fact that your next dog may need another method than your current ones, I think it's fine. Some dogs, like Mia for example, need confinement to be safe. I cannot imagine having a Mia without using a crate. You'd either come home to a demolished house or a dead dog....
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  #29  
Old 07-25-2010, 06:03 AM
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GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
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We crated Leo and we crate Nikki, but clicker trained neither. Tried to get Nikki on board but she doesn't respond to the clicker and try as I might, she never made the connection, so I abandoned it and went back to more traditional training methods.

I may never be able to treat long distance, but at least she'll learn. She wasn't getting anything from the clicker.

Clicker training is just one of a slew of different ways to train dogs. Not all dogs are receptive to all training styles. Just like humans, they have different ways of learning and different things that motivate them.
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  #30  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:38 AM
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I don't clicker train. I don't see the use in it. However, I do crate train puppies for house training, and to keep all my furniture in tack at night and when I'm not home. Once house trained and out of the "puppy stage" the crate is no more.
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