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  #11  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:33 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Clickers and crates are simply tools that make owning, managing and communicating with your dogs easier. If you don't want to do either... no problemo! But to never try either and judge them as useless to you is a bit presumptuous.

I used to think clickers were stuuupid, until I read books, saw dogs who were clicker trained, and started using them myself. Now I am in love! I suppose it depends really on what you want to do with your dog (such as dog sports, obedience, tricks, etc), and whether or not there are behavioral issues that need work (which, I mean, no dog is perfect!).

Crates have always been a tool that my family has used to house train puppies... and none of our dogs have EVER had accidents, so that's a good indication of it's usefulness to me. My dogs also love chillin in their crates, I like that they have a safe, quiet place to hang out when ever they want to. I work at a pet hotel, and it's blatantly obvious which dogs have been crate trained and which have not. The dogs who are barking and foaming and pawing at the walls are the dogs who have never been taught to chill out in their den.

If you don't plan on training, boarding, or vetting your dogs... clickers and crates really aren't going to help you at all.
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
See, as long as someone does THIS, I have no problem with people not crating.

I do believe dogs should know what a crate is, purely from a safety standpoint. When a dog goes to a pro groomer, it's put in a crate. When a dog goes to a vet and has to stay the night, it's put in a crate. When a dog goes to the ICU at the state teaching hospital for a major illness or trauma.... it's put in a crate. It's a lot safer and less stressful for the dog - in all of the aforementioned situations - for it to be familiar with being crated. Maybe your dog will never visit a groomer, but you never know when your dog will be staying at a veterinary facility. And let me tell ya, when a 100lb dog wakes up from a double TPLO surgery and instantly starts freaking out because it's in a (large) crate-like enclosure... that's NOT a pretty sight.

But hey, it's not my call - especially since I don't work at a teaching hospital or in a grooming salon anymore.
This^^^ And I like them for potty training, keeping them safe when puppies and also for taking them in the car. I feel they're more protected, at least somewhat in a crate. I don't use a crate now in the house because of a space issue. It's just nicer in my house without one. And my dogs are adults and completely civilized. But yeah....those reasons Sizzledog mentioned are real issues that would concern me if my dogs hadn't been crate trained. They've all, at one time or more than one time been hospitalized and had to stay in a small cage. At least they didn't have to be stressed from that on top of the other stresses.

As far as the clicker, that's just personal preferrence like Ihart mentioned....a tool for more exacting communication. And they're fun for a lot of people. I don't use one for everything...just some things. And I get a kick out of how the dogs respond to clicker training. It's just flat out fun. But yeah, sometimes you can wind up with too many things in your hands and they're kinda hard to juggle. Of course, there's always a marker word. It's just that marker training is super effective and fun. But no, one can certainly train a dog without that. So, no...it's not a big deal if you don't use one. But it is a big deal for people who do love clicker training.
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2010, 07:59 PM
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I honestly, for the most part, don't care one way or another what someone does with there own dogs as long as no one's actually getting harmed.

That being said, I love marker training and I use both a clicker and "Yes" and can't imagine training a lot of things without it. It just makes the communication between us all the more better, especially for longer distance and precision work. Makes training just go that much smoother.

Crates, well Kaylee would have eaten this house and then peed on anything left over when she was a puppy without a crate and she still isn't allowed free range if I'm gone for more than a couple hours. It was a life saver and honestly, had I not had it I think Kaylee and I would have been kicked out of my parents house.

So far, Traveler hasn't needed to be in his crate much but when I can't watch him and no one else can I'm not going to trust a 14 week old puppy to behave, that's just silly. It's also very very useful for that morning every once in awhile were he decides 5 am is rise and shine time and I disagree.

So, pretty much I'm cool with people using whatever tool they want and it takes a lot for me to really not see the use of one for different people, dogs and desires
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:01 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
. I work at a pet hotel, and it's blatantly obvious which dogs have been crate trained and which have not. The dogs who are barking and foaming and pawing at the walls are the dogs who have never been taught to chill out in their den.

If you don't plan on training, boarding, or vetting your dogs... clickers and crates really aren't going to help you at all.
Funny, because though both puppies don't freak out in their crates, I can tell they'd MUCH prefer to be out.
Luke still tries to whine and bark a few times.

And Ophie gets an "A" for hope because she thinks that licking the bars on her crate door will magically make them open...eventually.
And she WILL sing "The Crate Blues" song if I crate her while I'm making dinner (which I do for her own safety) and while we eat dinner (which I do simply because she's annoying during that time.

But we are working on those things by...IGNORING THEM.

And it's working because it's becoming less frequent we hear the protesting.
Due to Luke's resource guarding issues, he's not allowed anything fun in his crate.
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  #15  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:12 PM
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I tried the clicker with Sam and well it didn't click for him (no pun intended). I did my best to get him to understand the point of the clicker but he never understood it, so after a couple of weeks I stopped using it and training just went by smoother.

I understand the need to crate for some dogs but Sam has never used a crate, except when at the vet, in his life (I think he was a kept in a closet with his previous owners :/). I was a little worried that he'd hate the crate at the vets because he didn't like the one that we had at home but the vet said (prior to being neutered) that he was really well behaved just a little sad that his people were gone.
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  #16  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:13 PM
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Meh, I use both. I can't see how I would survive a puppy without having a crate. I seriously don't understand where you would put them at night or if you have to leave them alone. Housebreaking would take that much longer.

I didn't really get the big deal about clickers until I used one. My dog suddenly learned in 5 minutes what she couldn't learn in 2 years. I don't think a clicker is as necessary as a crate, but now that I know how quickly dogs understand it, I'll always use one. Plus it just gives you more options in training... shaping without a marker? Yeahhh not sure about that.
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:14 PM
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I just do not know how ANYONE with a puppy could leave their house and NOT crate the puppy.
If I did that, no matter HOW WELL I puppy-proofed my house, I have no doubt in my MIND they'd destroy SOMETHING while I was gone.
After all, one cannot "put away" a couch.

Not to mention if they got into a scrap while I was gone.
It's horrifying to even THINK about for me.
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  #18  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
I just do not know how ANYONE with a puppy could leave their house and NOT crate the puppy.
If I did that, no matter HOW WELL I puppy-proofed my house, I have no doubt in my MIND they'd destroy SOMETHING while I was gone.
After all, one cannot "put away" a couch.

Not to mention if they got into a scrap while I was gone.
It's horrifying to even THINK about for me.
I baby gated the front entry way for all three of mine. It's tile there and easy to clean. None of them had accidents really though since my school schedule/mum's work schedule was flexible enough to be able to come home at lunch to let them out plus i'd be home from school at 3pm.


As for sleep? For me it was much easier to have izzie sleep on my bed where i could FEEL her fussing rather than relying on hearing her fussing... I'm a dead sleeper and she slept on my chest so I'd physically feel her wake up and move so i could take her out. She slept through the night since 12 or so weeks though so no problems.
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  #19  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:25 PM
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See, after having a dog jump out the window while we were gone... I just can't not crate, lol. I mean who expects their dog to jump out a window?? So how many other things could they do that you wouldn't normally think of?

I'd also be afraid that the walls would be eaten. lol.

I think we're close to being able to ditch the crate with Juno. At least I hope we are. I don't want to get another pup until she's been transitioned out of the crate, because there is no way I have the space for 2 crates.
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:48 PM
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Laurelin Laurelin is online now
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I say never say never.... for some dogs not having a crate works but for others crates or a similar form of confinement is absolutely 100% necessary. I have one of those. And no, a safe room doesn't work because she pulls up the flooring.

Use the necessary tools to maintain your dog. It's great if your dog doesn't need a crate. My shelties didn't need to be crated after the first couple years. One day you may get a dog that requires a different kind of ownership and management than you have used previously.

Also, for those who had issues clicker training, did you load the clicker first? (ie click treat click treat before starting to train with it) Just curious.
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