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  #11  
Old 07-17-2010, 01:27 PM
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This dog really needs a certified behaviorist to work with him and whomever will be caring for him. This kennel manager is an idiot! She has no business dealing with any dogs, let alone a dog with this severe an issue. This dog should not be given his food in a bowl at all, ever...not until he is completely rehabilitated. Anytime anyone walks past, a special treat should be tossed through the chain link. He should be fed by tossing pieces of kibble through the kennel. Measure out his ration and tell anyone, when they walk past to take a few pieces and toss through the wires.

When he calms for a few seconds, whoever is working with him, should walk away about 15 ft. as a "reward" for his not snarking. At this point, people going away is what he wants more than anything. So, as he's snarling and barking, and you're standing there, you should just wait for a lull...then go away. Then go nearer again, but keep a distance that is comfortable to him, where he doesn't snarl and carry on.... and toss a treat. (if you can reach) Absolutely no aversive punishment should EVER, EVER, EVER be used on a dog with aggression issues. Gradually, you should be able to go closer and toss a handful of kibble in. As he's eating, stand there. Just as he finishes, walk away. Come back, repeat. Show him that when you're close, food happens. When you go away, nothing great happens. Gradually, the walking away will not be a reward to him anymore, but a disappointment. And coming nearer will become the good thing. (if it's done slowly, consistently and correctly)

Of course, when not everyone is on the same page, none of this will do any good. There has to be absolute consistency. He should be taken out of that situation where there are multiple care givers...if only there were some behaviorist or behavior consultant who would be able and willing to work one on one with him in a private setting...

Really, this dog needs professional help and I mean the kind where the person has real credentials, like a phd in behavior. This is ridiculous that this kennel manager can even be a kennel manager. She is going to further this dog's distrust in humans if she is allowed to continue working with him. This poor dog should not be adopted to any John Q, but only by someone who is trained and educated in behavior modification....at least until the dog is trustworthy. It is very dangerous to have this dog around anyone right now, who doesn't know what he/she is doing. The poor dog....sometimes when there's no one who can improve a dog's situation, the dog's trust in people, his well being, the best thing for the dog is for it to be pts.
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  #12  
Old 07-17-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
This dog really needs a certified behaviorist to work with him and whomever will be caring for him. This kennel manager is an idiot! She has no business dealing with any dogs, let alone a dog with this severe an issue. This dog should not be given his food in a bowl at all, ever...not until he is completely rehabilitated. Anytime anyone walks past, a special treat should be tossed through the chain link. He should be fed by tossing pieces of kibble through the kennel. Measure out his ration and tell anyone, when they walk past to take a few pieces and toss through the wires.

When he calms for a few seconds, whoever is working with him, should walk away about 15 ft. as a "reward" for his not snarking. At this point, people going away is what he wants more than anything. So, as he's snarling and barking, and you're standing there, you should just wait for a lull...then go away. Then go nearer again, but keep a distance that is comfortable to him, where he doesn't snarl and carry on.... and toss a treat. (if you can reach) Absolutely no aversive punishment should EVER, EVER, EVER be used on a dog with aggression issues. Gradually, you should be able to go closer and toss a handful of kibble in. As he's eating, stand there. Just as he finishes, walk away. Come back, repeat. Show him that when you're close, food happens. When you go away, nothing great happens. Gradually, the walking away will not be a reward to him anymore, but a disappointment. And coming nearer will become the good thing. (if it's done slowly, consistently and correctly)

Of course, when not everyone is on the same page, none of this will do any good. There has to be absolute consistency. He should be taken out of that situation where there are multiple care givers...if only there were some behaviorist or behavior consultant who would be able and willing to work one on one with him in a private setting...

Really, this dog needs professional help and I mean the kind where the person has real credentials, like a phd in behavior. This is ridiculous that this kennel manager can even be a kennel manager. She is going to further this dog's distrust in humans if she is allowed to continue working with him. This poor dog should not be adopted to any John Q, but only by someone who is trained and educated in behavior modification....at least until the dog is trustworthy. It is very dangerous to have this dog around anyone right now, who doesn't know what he/she is doing. The poor dog....sometimes when there's no one who can improve a dog's situation, the dog's trust in people, his well being, the best thing for the dog is for it to be pts.
Bravo again Carrie!! (and just what I was thinking {wink})
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2010, 04:31 PM
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I just wanted to post a little update. We had a small breakthrough with Quinns today. Me, and this other woman who works there have been tossing treats to Quinns, and working with him, and today both of us got our hands licked through the cage! He also acts very excited when he sees a leash, so the woman and I are thinking of taking him for a walk together tomorrow, but we'll see how he is. I am pleased with the progress he is making already.

It probably helps that the kennel manager has not interacted with him at all since the incident I vented about in the OP.

Oh, and when it comes to feeding time, I gate him out, put his food bowl in, and then let him back in. I was able to hook the guillotine door open without being snarked at! While he was eating. Woot.
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Old 07-20-2010, 05:21 PM
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Good work There's a difference between having the book learning and having the UNDERSTANDING of the dog
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2010, 07:03 PM
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Sounds like he's appreciating you guys more. If you really want to curb his resource guarding though, I still recommend no food bowl for the time being. The way to turn his thinking around is to see that you're the one who controls the food...that it comes from your hand, that there's no bowl to "own." Then after some time of hand feeding, you could use a bowl, but continue holding it. Don't set it down. Once you relinquish it, it's his to guard. When you keep your hand on it and put in just a small handful of kibble, he eats and has to wait until YOU drop some more in for him. All this only comes well after he's forgotten about guarding a bowl of any kind. After holding onto the bowl for some time, you can try setting it down and dropping just a handful in and walking away when he finishes his last bite. Then come back and drop in another handful. Again, walk away as he finishes his last piece. Soon, he'll be begging you to come back close to his bowl. Then you go from there as far as bending closer to the bowl. It's a gradual process. Sometimes it goes quickly and sometimes it has to be more gradual. Anyhow, all that is if you want to modify that resource guarding behavior.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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Last edited by Doberluv; 07-20-2010 at 07:16 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2010, 04:08 PM
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Thank you Doberluv for all your advice, it is very appreciated.

Here's another little update on Quins. He gets to go on walks now during the week. The kennel manager took him out for the first one (and happily, did not exercise any dominance theory crap on him), and a coworker has taken him out for others, with the kennel manager's permission. He's really very sweet when he's not around high value food items. Quins is going through a tough time right now, he has no one to really trust and guide him (yet), and he's confused. This is a dog who needs someone strong he can look to and depend on. He just doesn't know what to be right now, poor thing.

Here's two pics of Quins and I. The kennel manager let me handle him a little bit on his first walk.




Please don't mind the huge choke chain, the kennel manager put it on him (it was not used except to walk, thankfully).
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:22 PM
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That is wonderful news. Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2010, 05:28 PM
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You're welcome. I hope it will help and that the gradual process can be implimented. It is so hard in that kind of situation where there are several people interacting with him. You're so right that he needs someone strong and secure with him to help make him feel secure. It would be so nice if one special person could adopt him and could work through this issue because he sounds like such a great dog otherwise. It's hard to remember that food guarding isn't some weird, abnormal behavior. It's very normal and natural. It's just that some dogs don't wind up having a problem with people and some do. You're so good to work with him and it's great that you're getting to take him on walks. He's lucky in that he has a few people to pay attention to him and give him a little fun. Those are nice pictures. He looks like he's having a nice day.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776





"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #19  
Old 08-01-2010, 04:26 PM
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Allllrighty then.

Here's a little update on Quins. I took him for a walk today by myself (with permission). I took him in the play yard, and he sniffed and peed and pooped and ran around a little. Then he came over to me, and I had a slice of kraft cheese in my pocket, so I took out two pieces and asked him to sit (because the coworker that walks him said he sat for her), and he just stared at me, so I said "Quins, sit!" again, in a firm voice. He stared at me with that intense stare he does (that can be very intimidating to some) and started to jump up, and I turned away. Quins jumped on my back, held on briefly with his paws, and growled in my ear. So I leashed him and said "Fine, no more yard privileges for you!" and we went on a walk. And I kept my cheese put away.

In the forest on a trail, we came upon a bench. I sat on the bench, and Quins jumped up on the bench next to me and had his face near my face, which made me uncomfortable, so I attempted to guide him off the bench by the leash while saying "Quins, off the bench!" and he stared at me and growled. I promptly stood up and said "Fine, lets walk!" and we continued our walk, and then I put him back in his kennel (I had no issues with this).

Quins is a very insecure dog, and when we weren't walking, and I'd look at him and he'd look at me, he always had a hard look in his eye, and he always seems nervous. I also learned today that his previous owner used to hit him when giving commands, so I think part of Quins' behavior is due to his staying on the defensive. I admit I probably jumped the gun a bit when I tried to see if he'd obey any commands, but I have seriously never handled a dog who got that freaking upset and defiant over a simple "sit" command (and a lot of the time, insecure dogs respond well to simple training, it helps to build trust and they calm down because they learn aha, THIS is what you want from me!). I was a bit shook up after both experiences, but I'm sure I handled them better than a lot of people. Quins, you are one muddled up dog.

One pic of the King of Bratness in the play yard:
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2010, 11:14 PM
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Can I say that I LOOOOVE Quin?

I have always been a sucker for the animals that no one else wants.

You are doing a fantastic job though, not many people are willing to try. There is a huge look of relief on his face in the last pic, poor fellow. He may be "extra luney" from bordom too. Maybe the walks will help him some too.

I do have to say, I wouldn't have a high value item like cheese around this dog for a while... try things that are very low value, lower value than dog food, maybe carrots and Cherrios? The growling may have been provoked by the cheese, he could have been bullying you for it or just gaurding it. Even if it was "out of view" like in your pocket, he knew it was there.

Great job, baby steps are still improvements!
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