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  #111  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:04 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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I'll never forget one day when my sister was young. My best friend was at my house and Fey would NOT leave us alone. Finally I told her if she didn't leave I was going to pick her up and set her out of my room and put something in front of the door so she couldn't bug us anymore.

Her reply was that she'd just tell mom on me.

When I replied that I hadn't done anything wrong for her to tattle on, she very cooly informed me that it didn't matter, she'd make something up, and "mommy ALWAYS believes me!"

She was not quite 5 years old; she'd been pulling that crap since she could talk . . . and she hasn't changed a bit to this day.

Some people really are born liars.
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  #112  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
Sorry, late to the party.


By which party's standard of being a 'good' parent? What kid thinks their parents are 'good' when they get disciplined?

I'm living proof of seeing the difference between what I THOUGHT (or learned from a book) how I would feel and how I actually feel having a kid.
No its like being good at any other job.. the proof is in the pudding as they say. Are your kids happy and well adjusted? If yes then chances are you are a good parent. If your parents hate your guts don't trust you and or do lots of dangerous things behind your back then not so much.

No one likes getting disciplined (and if they do then its not working ) But if the punishment ruins the relationship then, yes its bad parenting. Here a kid can move out no questions asked at 16. So you (not you specifically generic you) come down on your child like a ton of bricks because the kid lied about pot. Child decides you are an unfair tyrant and moves out... how can you parent someone who isn't there for you to influence?

Actions have consequences. But not just for kids, but for parents too.

My dad has a great saying.. Being a parent is a hard job, but a **** easy one to get.
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  #113  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:10 PM
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Lilavati Lilavati is offline
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Originally Posted by sparks19 View Post
Idon't know... but lying is not a LEARNED behaviour. At least not one learned by watching other people. It's something we are just born with the ability to do even though we might not realize it until later.

You can take a kid that has NEVER seen a person lie as far as they know but they'll still possess the ability to lie and may exercise it leaving you wondering where they learned it from.
I didn't mean it was learned from watching other people . . . I guess the word I wanted was "discovered" . . . we all develop the ability to lie, and pretty early on, but the youngest children don't (according to scientists) understand enough about other people's minds to lie or be able to lie . . . once they figure out, however, that they can tell untruths and that those untruths will influence the behavior of others, they start doing it. Lying arises from increased mental development . . . the realization that other people don't know what you know, and moreover, that you can influence what they DO know.
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  #114  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Some people really are born liars.
I agree that some people have a much higher propensity for lying than others, and it seems to be ingrained and/or start VERY young!

My brother could look my mother (or anyone) right in the eye and never flinch while he told the biggest whoppers you ever heard in your life, even if HE knew that YOU knew he was lying he could stay cool as a cucumber and never give it another thought afterwards! He had this ability before he ever started school!

I, on the other hand, would attempt to lie to her and she'd never say a word and let it go with no problem.......but I'd worry myself so badly over it I'd end up with a headache! Many are the times I've actually woken her up to confess without her doing or saying a word to me about it! She'd simply say "I know, and I knew you'd be knocking soon enough" I don't know if that was true or a mother's mind game, but it definitely worked on ME
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  #115  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lilavati View Post
I didn't mean it was learned from watching other people . . . I guess the word I wanted was "discovered" . . . we all develop the ability to lie, and pretty early on, but the youngest children don't (according to scientists) understand enough about other people's minds to lie or be able to lie . . . once they figure out, however, that they can tell untruths and that those untruths will influence the behavior of others, they start doing it. Lying arises from increased mental development . . . the realization that other people don't know what you know, and moreover, that you can influence what they DO know.
OH yeah I know.

That's just always something I remember when we talk about kids and lying.
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  #116  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
But if the punishment ruins the relationship then, yes its bad parenting. Here a kid can move out no questions asked at 16. So you (not you specifically generic you) come down on your child like a ton of bricks because the kid lied about pot. Child decides you are an unfair tyrant and moves out... how can you parent someone who isn't there for you to influence?

Actions have consequences. But not just for kids, but for parents too.
That was kind of my point (other than the fact that making other people miserable, especially your own kids, possibly for no reason, sucks). Because my parents trusted me (admittedly, I was a pretty good kid) I had (and still have) a good relationship with them. Therefore, when the time came when I really, really needed their help, I called them. In fact, I can think of two incidents, one as a young teenager and the other as a young adult, one my own fault and one medical, when I really needed help . . . and it was very good that I did turn to them. Indeed, it was partially because of how they reacted to the first incident (when I was very foolish and bad indeed) that I trusted them the second time.

One thing they always made clear to me was that if I was ever REALLY in trouble, they would help me, no questions asked, no recriminations, just CALL them. That I could always, always trust them. It was possibly the most valuable thing they could have done.
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I'm a lawyer, but I'm not YOUR lawyer. Nothing I say should be taken as legal advice.

The Court's extensive review of these pages serves as a useful reminder that loaded guns, sharp objects and law degrees should be kept out of the reach of children.

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  #117  
Old 07-15-2010, 07:20 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilavati View Post
I didn't mean it was learned from watching other people . . . I guess the word I wanted was "discovered" . . . we all develop the ability to lie, and pretty early on, but the youngest children don't (according to scientists) understand enough about other people's minds to lie or be able to lie . . . once they figure out, however, that they can tell untruths and that those untruths will influence the behavior of others, they start doing it. Lying arises from increased mental development . . . the realization that other people don't know what you know, and moreover, that you can influence what they DO know.
Have you watched the movie, The Invention of Lying? You should
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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Be a god. Know when to shut up.


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  #118  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:25 AM
mjb mjb is offline
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Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
No its like being good at any other job.. the proof is in the pudding as they say. Are your kids happy and well adjusted? If yes then chances are you are a good parent. If your parents hate your guts don't trust you and or do lots of dangerous things behind your back then not so much.

No one likes getting disciplined (and if they do then its not working ) But if the punishment ruins the relationship then, yes its bad parenting. Here a kid can move out no questions asked at 16. So you (not you specifically generic you) come down on your child like a ton of bricks because the kid lied about pot. Child decides you are an unfair tyrant and moves out... how can you parent someone who isn't there for you to influence?

Actions have consequences. But not just for kids, but for parents too.

My dad has a great saying.. Being a parent is a hard job, but a **** easy one to get.
I've had 3 teenagers, and being a parent is a hard job. Also, there are lots of books on parenting, but there isn't a foolproof manual with directions to follow.

If I could KNOW how firm or how lenient to be to ensure that my kids grew up to be self-sufficient, responsible adults, you can be sure that's what I would be doing. That's what I have tried to do, but I am absolutely sure some would think I was overbearing and controlling and others would think I was not firm enough and let them get away with way too much.

I'm on teen #3, and I still wish I knew the formula, but we're doing the best we can. I know my current teen thinks we're too controlling. We probably are at times. I also think we let too many things slide. I hope we get a few things right, and I hope he becomes the wonderful young man that he appears to be headed towards, and many, many times I feel like all 3 of mine have gotten and are getting where they are in spite of us!!

Before my kids became teens, I found parenting much easier!! (with the exception of the sleepless infancy period.........I don't function well on no sleep).
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  #119  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:24 AM
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I'm a fantastic liar but I rarely tell a lie. I don't see the need. I'd rather be honest. When confronted by my mother about having sex, drinking and doing drugs I said to her I'd answer her honestly but she may want to sit down asi t could take awhile. I wouldn't call myself an alcoholic but I had a good eight months where I was ALWAYS drunk. I gave it up without a second thought but during those eight months due to drinking my judgement slipped and I did try drugs. I did acid twice, e twice and while drunk and high on E I was drugged with what I can only guess was GHB. If asked she'd always know where I was going but I'd avoid talking to her for weeks on end if I didn't feel like talking. Which is just as terrible as lying, if not worse.

I wouldn't have been offended if my mom asked me to take a drug test. I was doing drugs. She had every right to suspect it. I was being a stink. I don't know how I'll handle the situation as a parent but I do know I have put in a lot of effort to have open and safe communication with my younger sister. I hope that she'll talk to me about whatever she may get herself into so mom doesn't have to resort to that sort of thing.
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  #120  
Old 07-17-2010, 03:48 PM
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My past made me who I am today, and that included pretty heavy recreational drug use at one point in time.

I'd say I'm a pretty decent, honest and hard working citizen.... and experiencing that is something I would never, ever change.

I know the reality from all sides of the seat - I come from a middle class good family home... I have been anti-drugs and smoking (very much so)... I have smoked (and recently quit - yay!)... delved into the recreational drugs/party scene... and worked in drugs and alcohol agencies.... And I've always like a drink

Life is for living - and life is for creating memories and experiences and filling yourself with good feelings and smiling. We're all gonna pop our clogs one day, and I'm glad I have these experiences to take with me - even the shitty ones when I didn't recognise the person looking back at me from the mirror (can you say whitey!).

I know the seedy sides I would NOT want my (or any other) child to take, but how could I preach to them when I did it myself and became ME because of it?

Which is why I try and educate kids of safety and reality, because at the end of the day ALL kids will make THAT choice themselves... and I'd rather they make an INFORMED choice than a stupid one.

Don't listen to the bullshit propaganda, if you want to help your children arm yourself with the facts.

If you're lucky they may decide never to touch anything their whole lives! But it is pretty much luck
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