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  #21  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:15 PM
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I guess the easiest way for me to explain it is to see it in more colored breeds like basset hounds or german shepherds.

Basset hound in sable

Basset hound in hound tri
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  #22  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I think I would still call her a sable, but I know there's a lot of debate about hounds vs sable. My Mia is a hound tri but she's about the darkest hound I've ever seen. Mia's body patch is solid black like a true tricolor.

Okay so hound tri is essentially a creeping tan pattern like seen in beagles, etc (hence the hound), right? Mia started out looking like a traditional tricolor but her tan spread over her whole face.

I often use Brandi's site for colors. I also use Aleda-Letit's color site a lot too.
I really don't care how dark whatever is although if you do part that particular dog's coat it is black in the base of the blanket pattern. As far as I'm concerned... if it's got a blanket. Hound tri. Just like if it has a bit of black in the coat it's a sable not a red. I've got a bitch here that is a minimalistic tri. The only way I know she's a tri and not a black and white is you can see a very tan line next to her mouth and her feet freckles are tan.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:22 PM
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Yeah that's what I meant by creeping tan.

I guess what I'm confused about is when on Brandi's page it was talking about hound she keeps referring to solid black body patching. Like when she is describing Carrie

"This is also considered a tri Papillon. Many breeders will refer to this color as Hound Tri while some will refer to it as Sable. This color occurs when the classic tan markings on a tri color Papillon spread out leaving most of the head and sometimes all of the head tan in color, but the body spots will remain black. On a true sable the body markings will have sabling within them as well instead of remaining black. A hound tri Papillon is labeled White, Black and Tan just as a classic tri would be. Photo taken at 8 months. "

To me your girl's saddle looks sabled all the way through. Or is that just the pic?

It's very interesting though to me. Thanks for taking the time to explain things!
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
I really don't care how dark whatever is although if you do part that particular dog's coat it is black in the base of the blanket pattern. As far as I'm concerned... if it's got a blanket. Hound tri. Just like if it has a bit of black in the coat it's a sable not a red. I've got a bitch here that is a minimalistic tri. The only way I know she's a tri and not a black and white is you can see a very tan line next to her mouth and her feet freckles are tan.
There's a lot of discrepancies in what people call colors. The 'hound' markings are also seen in border collies and they're called saddled there but are considered sable. However in paps the saddled coloration is considered tricolor? Just seems like there's no real standard nomenclature.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Yeah that's what I meant by creeping tan.

I guess what I'm confused about is when on Brandi's page it was talking about hound she keeps referring to solid black body patching. Like when she is describing Carrie

"This is also considered a tri Papillon. Many breeders will refer to this color as Hound Tri while some will refer to it as Sable. This color occurs when the classic tan markings on a tri color Papillon spread out leaving most of the head and sometimes all of the head tan in color, but the body spots will remain black. On a true sable the body markings will have sabling within them as well instead of remaining black. A hound tri Papillon is labeled White, Black and Tan just as a classic tri would be. Photo taken at 8 months. "

To me your girl's saddle looks sabled all the way through. Or is that just the pic?

It's very interesting though to me. Thanks for taking the time to explain things!
If you're lucky enough to get a spot on the blanket. Yeah, it'll be black. But there is alot of blanket variation in the color hound tri.

All three of these german shepherds are "hound tri" or black and tan in that breed.





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  #26  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
There's a lot of discrepancies in what people call colors. The 'hound' markings are also seen in border collies and they're called saddled there but are considered sable. However in paps the saddled coloration is considered tricolor? Just seems like there's no real standard nomenclature.
Between breeds you're absolutely right, they have their own names for just about everything. Happily it doesn't really matter for our breed so long as the lips and nose are black and the markings are on.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:40 PM
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Between breeds you're absolutely right, they have their own names for just about everything. Happily it doesn't really matter for our breed so long as the lips and nose are black and the markings are on.
Yep! I have had papillon people tell me Summer was a red and white when she's really a clear sable. I guess it really comes down to each person's opinion.

Mia's only got one body patch (other than a few ticks). She has a LOT more black on her face than most hounds I've met.

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Old 06-29-2010, 09:43 PM
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Yep! I have had papillon people tell me Summer was a red and white when she's really a clear sable. I guess it really comes down to each person's opinion.

Mia's only got one body patch (other than a few ticks). She has a LOT more black on her face than most hounds I've met.

She is very dark. If you imagine her as a solid colored dog she's probably look alot like this GSD

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Old 06-29-2010, 09:50 PM
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She is very dark. If you imagine her as a solid colored dog she's probably look alot like this GSD

She is the darkest I've ever met by quite a bit. I really love the darker pattern but I'm a bit biased.

Okay one other question is how long do you expect hounds to fade? She started out looking like a traditional/classic tri then faded to the point she is now. Will she fade much more?
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  #30  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:53 PM
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I'm told the red reaches it's max by 2 years old. When River was born she looked black and white, within 3 days the brown started appearing, when she was 3 weeks old she clearly was a different color than her sable sisters, and by 4 months her blanket pattern appeared. Between 1 year and 2 years is when she really got red.

eta: I've got no color bias. I love a pretty papillon, no matter what the color or pattern. So I have 3 colors of the spectrum bouncing around here.
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