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  #11  
Old 03-25-2010, 03:45 PM
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Mi Bella, I would talk to actual Doberman owners. There are quite a few on here. Toller_08, SizzleDog, NoodleRubyAllie. They would be able to give you very sound advice on what exactly goes on to the pups during and after a crop, how the pups are affected (if at all), etc.
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Toller_08 View Post
Both of my Dobermans are cropped, and I'd absolutely do it again. I was with both litters before, during, and immediately after cropping, and I wouldn't really call it a traumatic experience at all. The most "traumatic" thing the puppies went through during cropping day was the effects of the anaesthetic. They whine and wiggle and move sort of erratically as they're waking up (just like any other dog I've had under for anything else), but as soon as those effects are worn off, the pups are up and trying to walk around and play with their littermates. The majority even eat about an hour after waking up, and all are eating by evening when they're all back home. Because the ear was cut, the pups shake their heads a bit and attempt to scratch at their new cups on their heads, but not because of unbearable pain. I can't say that it's not a uncomfortable for them... I'm sure it is to a certain degree. But mostly they just seem itchy when they do happen to think about their ears. By the next day they're running and playing and wrestling together like nothing ever happened. And if one puppy happens to hit a sensitive spot on another puppy's ear, then that puppy lets the other know to back off a bit. And then play resumes.

Proper aftercare is a major aspect of how the puppies are going to feel after ear cropping. If the breeder isn't doing a good job of cleaning up the ears and helping them heal, then for sure, the pups are going to experience some pain. But if the breeder is diligent in proper aftercare, then the pups really couldn't care less. Also, veterinary experience makes a big difference too. Only vets experienced in the art of cropping should be cropping puppies, because they know what they're doing. There are too many vets out there who say they can crop a dog and the dog comes home looking like it's been butchered... not a good thing.

Anyhow, that's just my feelings based on my own experience. I used to be on the fence about ear cropping before I got Dobermans. Now that I've been around a few of my breeder's litters, and helped to raise the last one, I don't see what the big deal is anymore. I'll always be pro-choice... crop if you want, don't crop if you don't agree with it. But don't force others to conform to your idea of what's wrong or right, especially if you have zero experience with the prodedure of cropping.
^^ whoops, posted at the same time! Completely agree with the bolded part.
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  #13  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toller_08 View Post
Both of my Dobermans are cropped, and I'd absolutely do it again. I was with both litters before, during, and immediately after cropping, and I wouldn't really call it a traumatic experience at all. The most "traumatic" thing the puppies went through during cropping day was the effects of the anaesthetic. They whine and wiggle and move sort of erratically as they're waking up (just like any other dog I've had under for anything else), but as soon as those effects are worn off, the pups are up and trying to walk around and play with their littermates. The majority even eat about an hour after waking up, and all are eating by evening when they're all back home. Because the ear was cut, the pups shake their heads a bit and attempt to scratch at their new cups on their heads, but not because of unbearable pain. I can't say that it's not a uncomfortable for them... I'm sure it is to a certain degree. But mostly they just seem itchy when they do happen to think about their ears. By the next day they're running and playing and wrestling together like nothing ever happened. And if one puppy happens to hit a sensitive spot on another puppy's ear, then that puppy lets the other know to back off a bit. And then play resumes.

Proper aftercare is a major aspect of how the puppies are going to feel after ear cropping. If the breeder isn't doing a good job of cleaning up the ears and helping them heal, then for sure, the pups are going to experience some pain. But if the breeder is diligent in proper aftercare, then the pups really couldn't care less. Also, veterinary experience makes a big difference too. Only vets experienced in the art of cropping should be cropping puppies, because they know what they're doing. There are too many vets out there who say they can crop a dog and the dog comes home looking like it's been butchered... not a good thing.

Anyhow, that's just my feelings based on my own experience. I used to be on the fence about ear cropping before I got Dobermans. Now that I've been around a few of my breeder's litters, and helped to raise the last one, I don't see what the big deal is anymore. I'll always be pro-choice... crop if you want, don't crop if you don't agree with it. But don't force others to conform to your idea of what's wrong or right, especially if you have zero experience with the prodedure of cropping.

As far as tails go, it's not uncommon for a lot of dogs to injure their tails when they whip it too hard against something. I've seen quite a few tail injuries on dogs with similar tails to what a doberman would have, just because they hit it too hard against things as their tails aren't protected by anything and the dog is strong. Lots of Danes I've met have had their tails amputated at an older age, as well as one Dal, because they injured them too badly. Not saying that this would happen to every Dobe with a tail... but it's a possibility.
Thank you for the advice. I really respect and appreciate it coming from someone that has experience with that.

At the end of the day, I know my brother will do crop his ears but I just wanted to hear some opinions on it. I know he'd change his mind if I could give some legit reasons.

I still dont know if I would do it to my dog but I just wanted to be a little more informed and provide my brother with some of that information.
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  #14  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:04 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I love natural ears, and given the choice I'd leave them natural.

Tails I can see the benefits of docking. I've seen many dogs come in with split tails from wagging too hard, only to need a tail amputation later in life. That being said, Gavroche is natural and I haven't had any major issues with his tail, just some thin hair and pimply things lol
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  #15  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:04 PM
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ACooper ACooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toller_08 View Post
Both of my Dobermans are cropped, and I'd absolutely do it again. I was with both litters before, during, and immediately after cropping, and I wouldn't really call it a traumatic experience at all. The most "traumatic" thing the puppies went through during cropping day was the effects of the anaesthetic. They whine and wiggle and move sort of erratically as they're waking up (just like any other dog I've had under for anything else), but as soon as those effects are worn off, the pups are up and trying to walk around and play with their littermates. The majority even eat about an hour after waking up, and all are eating by evening when they're all back home. Because the ear was cut, the pups shake their heads a bit and attempt to scratch at their new cups on their heads, but not because of unbearable pain. I can't say that it's not a uncomfortable for them... I'm sure it is to a certain degree. But mostly they just seem itchy when they do happen to think about their ears. By the next day they're running and playing and wrestling together like nothing ever happened. And if one puppy happens to hit a sensitive spot on another puppy's ear, then that puppy lets the other know to back off a bit. And then play resumes.

Proper aftercare is a major aspect of how the puppies are going to feel after ear cropping. If the breeder isn't doing a good job of cleaning up the ears and helping them heal, then for sure, the pups are going to experience some pain. But if the breeder is diligent in proper aftercare, then the pups really couldn't care less. Also, veterinary experience makes a big difference too. Only vets experienced in the art of cropping should be cropping puppies, because they know what they're doing. There are too many vets out there who say they can crop a dog and the dog comes home looking like it's been butchered... not a good thing.

Anyhow, that's just my feelings based on my own experience. I used to be on the fence about ear cropping before I got Dobermans. Now that I've been around a few of my breeder's litters, and helped to raise the last one, I don't see what the big deal is anymore. I'll always be pro-choice... crop if you want, don't crop if you don't agree with it. But don't force others to conform to your idea of what's wrong or right, especially if you have zero experience with the prodedure of cropping.

As far as tails go, it's not uncommon for a lot of dogs to injure their tails when they whip it too hard against something. I've seen quite a few tail injuries on dogs with similar tails to what a doberman would have, just because they hit it too hard against things as their tails aren't protected by anything and the dog is strong. Lots of Danes I've met have had their tails amputated at an older age, as well as one Dal, because they injured them too badly. Not saying that this would happen to every Dobe with a tail... but it's a possibility.
Good advice and experience there.

I can tell you I saw no "trauma" in Orson or any other boxer or doberman I've been around as a cropped pup. He came home from the vet a few hours after his crop........bounded in the front door just as happy and playful as before he left.

Recovery? It's next to NOTHING........there is WAY more recovery involved in a neuter for either sex than a crop or dock, so I don't know how or why people use the word "trauma" in relation to crop/dock.

Granted, there will be much more work for you (or your brother) as owners in the after care, making sure the pup's ears are taped to stand correctly, hopefully by someone who has experience and background.

I whole heartedly agree with Toller, DO IT if you want, DON'T do it if you want, but DON'T force your opinion on the issue down other's throats.
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  #16  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:13 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Quote:
I don't know how or why people use the word "trauma" in relation to crop/dock.
Technically, "trauma" is anything that causes physical or emotional damage. Yeah, a crop or dock is "trauma." So is a neuter, a dog bite, a skin scrape, a vaccine, getting chipped, and beating a tail open from wagging.
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:17 PM
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Coop! You do have a Doberman, don't you? I kept thinking, who else has a Dobe?? D'oh. Coop!
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:18 PM
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I don't believe there is a functional NEED for cropping. i have a friend that breeds & hunts Dogo Argentinos and he does 50/50 on the pups he keeps for himself. so far he has a seen a mrginal difference in ear cleanliness and that is the main risk of infection.
tail docking is a different matter most breeds w/ docked tails needed it for a reason including reduced risk of injury.
while i believe there is less need, i believe absolutely 100% it should be the dog owner's decision.
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2010, 05:01 PM
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smkie smkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mi_bella View Post
But then wouldn't any other part of the dogs body be just as in danger of getting cut as their tails?
It was a silly poke at an old debate. We run in the woods all the time, hard running and have not broken a tail ever on any of them so I had a hard time believing it but this one member determined that this one specific tree was a tail eater.
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2010, 05:04 PM
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Whatever you do make sure if you decide to crop you are aware of the after care needed.

Personally I wouldn't do it but that's just me.
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