Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:42 PM
GlassOnion's Avatar
GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 9,065
Default How long does it take to load the click?

Nikki is progressing OK in her training, and I think clicker training would rock with her, but I don't think she's getting the idea. I spent about five days just giving treats and clicking at the same time to associate the tone with 'reward', but sometimes it's like she just ignores it completely, so I don't know if she fully has the idea yet or if the other thing is just more tempting.

Earlier today she chose to lay down over getting a food reward, and that's what befuddled me. She is very food motivated and for her to ignore the click and instead just lie down, well that makes me think she doesn't have the click associated.

Further confusing me is that she's obviously making progress, but I don't know what she's taking as the reward. The click, the actual treat, or the 'good girls' and rubdowns? At this point I think the actual click is completely irrelevant to her and thus I was wondering how long I should've spent associating the two, because she's obviously not correlated them yet.


Oh also when you give the reward, should you click each time as a reinforcer, even though you've already clicked for the behavior?
__________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- 'WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!!' " - Author Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:56 PM
Zoom's Avatar
Zoom Zoom is offline
Twin 2.0
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 40,737
Default

You need to be clicking for something, instead of just randomly...I start off with eye contact. I will hold a treat and the second their eyes meet mine, click/treat. Then wait for them to do it again. Repeat. When your dog is staring at you so hard you can feel her brain starting to smoke because she's waiting for the click, then you know you've got the clicker loaded.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,519
Default

Start with high value rewards. Click rubdown isn't generally terribly useful, unless your dog has a history of being very neglected and starved for attn.

Eye conact is good. But my first usually a hand touch. Make sure the food is NOT in the hand you want to the dog to touch. Hold out your hand and c/t for looking at or sniffing the hand and go from there. I don't say good girl etc or talk when the dog is trying to figure it out. If you are are trying to work your way through a particularly difficult math equation do you want someone prattling on to you?

The other thing is you may want to check your timing. Have someone watch. If thats not possible check and see if you can click a bouncing ball. Ie try to click when it hits the floor (or wall that works too).
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:04 PM
GlassOnion's Avatar
GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 9,065
Default

I don't think I was very clear. I'm not clicking randomly, I only did it at first when loading the click with a reward. I click as soon as she does the action I want.

She's got shake and high five down pat, but I trained those without a clicker. When doing things like 'come', 'up', 'lay' and what not, she doesn't seem to associate the click appropriately, which makes me think it's not been correlated correctly. I'll click soon as she hits the ground when laying down or sitting (up is a bit harder) but she doesn't seem to get the idea.


Quote:
Click rubdown isn't generally terribly useful, unless your dog has a history of being very neglected and starved for attn.
It's not click-rubdown/good girl, it's click treat. The rubdown is just after I give the treat. It's as much for my benefit (she has soft fur) as hers.
__________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- 'WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!!' " - Author Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:25 PM
Tsume'sMom's Avatar
Tsume'sMom Tsume'sMom is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Default

It sounds more likely that the behavior is not trained and she doesn't get it.

If you click with out your dogs attention does the dog look to you for a reward. If not, then your right, the dog has no idea that the click is ment to mark the reward.

If the dog does look, then she does get the marker but not what your expecting her to do to get it.

You listed off 3 commands that she is learning, and I'm sure you are useing more than that that she is expected to "know" just because you clicked them. Work one command a week and build on them slowly. Tossing 3-5-7 command around and everyone earns a click and reward, it is no wonder the dog would be confused.

Slow is fast. One behavior/command at a time untill the dog is getting it, THEN you can ad more.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2010, 04:32 PM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassOnion View Post
I don't think I was very clear. I'm not clicking randomly, I only did it at first when loading the click with a reward. I click as soon as she does the action I want.

She's got shake and high five down pat, but I trained those without a clicker. When doing things like 'come', 'up', 'lay' and what not, she doesn't seem to associate the click appropriately, which makes me think it's not been correlated correctly. I'll click soon as she hits the ground when laying down or sitting (up is a bit harder) but she doesn't seem to get the idea.




It's not click-rubdown/good girl, it's click treat. The rubdown is just after I give the treat. It's as much for my benefit (she has soft fur) as hers.
Just as an experiment I would try to keep it 'cleaner' and less distracting. be very aware of what she does. And train one thing her training session (ie stop for at least 10 min between behaviours). Treat it a bit like a science project See if she is getting distracted. I generally don't talk AT ALL when doing a dog's first shaping etc with the clicker. Or when doing something new and tricky. Words are pretty much all for our benefit. Dogs learn to like our talking to them, but its not innately useful.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2010, 05:25 PM
GlassOnion's Avatar
GlassOnion GlassOnion is offline
Thanks, and Gig 'em.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 9,065
Default

So y'all are saying to train only one command at once? I usually run her through a gauntlet of commands so she doesn't get bored of just doing the same command over and over again.
__________________
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, throughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming --- 'WOW, WHAT A RIDE!!!!' " - Author Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Dekka's Avatar
Dekka Dekka is offline
Just try me..
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,519
Default

Thats fine. And when I have cues my dog knows we will work on lots. But only ONE new cue (not under stimulus control) at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-18-2010, 05:56 PM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsume'sMom View Post
If you click with out your dogs attention does the dog look to you for a reward. If not, then your right, the dog has no idea that the click is ment to mark the reward.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, although would love some input from more experienced clicker trainers.

IME, it doesn't take long at all for the dog to get that the click means a reward is coming. What I also have found with the malis is that if I click and the dog doesn't look for the reward, then the reward I'm using isn't high value enough for that situation. When I switch from click/treat to click/toy, all of a sudden they're back in the game.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Tsume'sMom's Avatar
Tsume'sMom Tsume'sMom is offline
Puppy Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, although would love some input from more experienced clicker trainers.

IME, it doesn't take long at all for the dog to get that the click means a reward is coming. What I also have found with the malis is that if I click and the dog doesn't look for the reward, then the reward I'm using isn't high value enough for that situation. When I switch from click/treat to click/toy, all of a sudden they're back in the game.
If the reward is truely rewarding for the dog, and the click marks the behavior that earns the reward, the dog should be looking for the reward the moment they hear the click.

That conditioning is the foundation of clicker training.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site