Shock (E-collars)

[adojrts]

Agreed it is bias, but then I would love to challenge anyone that is pro e-collar to post a research paper that has been published to counter it. Anyone??

[Criosphynx]

*crickets*

[Tsume'sMom]

Maybe the people who use them are happy with their dogs and don't feel the need to spend time trying to change the minds of people who will never change their opinions on their choice training method.

I don't push my chosen training methods on anyone, nor to I feel the need to justify my well mannored four-legged best friend.

Challenging someone to prove that their training method works for them and their dog is just looking to pick a fight or start a debate that has been beaten to death on every dog fourm on the internet.

There will never be just one end all say all of animal training, and anyone who thinks so does a great disservice to the animals that land in their care. Use what works best for your dog, because a trained dog will not die unwanted in the shelter.

[MarieG]

Sorry. Wasn't looking to stir up a national debate. Was just looking for research on the topic.

[release the hounds]

Originally Posted by adojrts

Agreed it is bias, but then I would love to challenge anyone that is pro e-collar to post a research paper that has been published to counter it. Anyone??

i've put up video a couple times. that pretty much refutes every claim this "research" paper has made.

but i am not "pro" ecollar. I just hate it when I see junk paraded as some sort of proof then repeated and repeated and repeated like it's some sort of truth.

[Doberluv]

Why does it require proof? How could shocking a dog with electricity of any kind be a kind way to treat an animal? Why is the concept of proof even necessary? It's only natural and logical that a living being would be hurt or down trodden in some way by electric shock. What is wrong with people?

I couldn't do that to the animals I love. It would break my heart to see them receiving that for the sake of "training." If one can't train an animal with gentleness, then don't train them....don't have them.

[release the hounds]

How can withholding food be considered training ? or putting a free animal in a cage? or putting a leash and collar around their neck?, or not letting them mate with every other dog they see?, as it is just nature doing it's thing.

You don't have to use one, or even like it, but jeez, when crap is put up as "proof" and you have people puking up info that is crap as "proof" and there have been examples of animals that don't display any of the dire warnings we're always given, what should we all do? Just fall in, step in line and repeat after you?

[Doberluv]

what should we all do? Just fall in, step in line and repeat after you?

YES! Exactly. I think you're finally getting it.

[TheGoldenRetriever]

Originally Posted by Doberluv

I couldn't do that to the animals I love.

I couldn't either. As for the choices of others, well it's THEIR dog. It just won't be any of mine.

I did find an article written by a user and advocate of e-collars. Some highlights of it:

** Admits e-collars are ideal for people who can't/don't want to spend more time using other training methods.

** Suggests the use of euphemisms to label shock collars anything other than what they are, to both quell objections from others and to "...help you think about it another way."

** Admits that most using e-collars use the highest level shock that a dog can tolerate. (To his credit, he uses the very lowest.)

And one thing I found very disturbing:

** Claims e-collars are not just for "hard" tempered dogs, but that the "softest" temperament dogs can be trained with them.
(Ummm sure ... if the goal is to create submissive urination.)

Here's a link to the article:
Dr. P's Dog Training: The Electronic Collar

[adojrts]

Originally Posted by release the hounds

You don't have to use one, or even like it, but jeez, when crap is put up as "proof" and you have people puking up info that is crap as "proof" and there have been examples of animals that don't display any of the dire warnings we're always given, what should we all do? Just fall in, step in line and repeat after you?

Pardon me, but all I did was provide what the OP REQUESTED, regardless of whether YOU agree with it or not, regardless of whether someone thinks it is bias. Again, at least give something to counter it, that IS published and leave the personal opinions aside. I am sure that the OP would like to have more than one referance to base an opinion on.
Personally I am not going to spend my money purchasing articles on it that are published online......... they are out there, just go read the abstracts, but you'll only get a taste or feel of the article and not the conclusions.

To the OP, not wanting a National Debate? How could you post such as request on a dog forum and not expect it turn into one? When this is such a highly debated and heated topic?

Tsume'sMom
I did not challenge the training methods, I challenged anyone to provide a link to an article to refute the one that I posted, since some didn't like it or thought it was bias.

Unless anyone has missed it, I have not given a personal opinion on any method