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  #11  
Old 03-07-2010, 10:34 AM
corky corky is offline
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Thanks, Jenn. That's what I'm aiming for.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Brad Patison is infamous for his abusive techniques! Run far far far away!


do you have a copy yet of "control unleashed" or "click to calm" ?


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Honestly, he's just very ADD. It doesn't take much for his attention to drift.
I must caution against rationalizations such as this, it sounds too much like blaming the dog...even a focused dog can loose that focus in overwhelming situations. Any time hes "add" hes simply over his threshold.


Thank you for the links i will review them. From what lizzy said, it still sounds like management to me

Last edited by Criosphynx; 03-07-2010 at 01:54 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:42 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Honestly, he's just very ADD. It doesn't take much for his attention to drift.
I'd also suggest reading "When Pigs Fly". Not saying that your dog is an "impossible" dog, BUT there is a lot of EXCELLENT information about how to get your dog to pay attention to you no matter where you are.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2010, 03:08 PM
corky corky is offline
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Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
Brad Patison is infamous for his abusive techniques! Run far far far away!
He's also famous for working with families that own "untrainable" dogs. If you know Brad Pattison and his techniques then I'm very surprised you didn't know about umbilical training. I don't like all that he does and I couldn't be consistent with the methods, but the umbilical and urban agility makes a lot of sense to me when it comes to Corky.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2010, 03:27 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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Originally Posted by corky View Post
He's also famous for working with families that own "untrainable" dogs. If you know Brad Pattison and his techniques then I'm very surprised you didn't know about umbilical training. I don't like all that he does and I couldn't be consistent with the methods, but the umbilical and urban agility makes a lot of sense to me when it comes to Corky.
So are many other trainers, and they train the "untrainable" without force.

forgive me if I don't know every single nuance of a trainers method who I have zero respect for.

brad pattison abuse video - FilesTube Video Search

those "untrainable" dogs are generally reactive dogs that the "magic" trainer uses compulsion on until they shutdown.

Pretty much every positive trainer in Canada is trying to get his show pulled last I heard.


Like I said, Iam familiar with the method (now that I realize we are talking about the same one), but still fail to see how it is going to help you with your Reactive dog, better than desensitization to triggers, counterconditioning, and plain old proofing of behaviors. The method reads like housebreaking tethering with "alpha" "leader" and "Dominant" thrown in to make is sound snazzier. JMHO

Sorry if the feedback you asked for is not what you want to hear.

Last edited by Criosphynx; 03-07-2010 at 03:55 PM.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:40 PM
corky corky is offline
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Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
...fail to see how it is going to help you with your Reactive dog, better than desensitization to triggers, counterconditioning, and plain old proofing of behaviors.
I'm sorry. I'm not a dog trainer. I don't know what desensitization, counterconditioning or proofing means or how to do it. Also, I'm not sure I understand the difference between reactive and aggressive. My dog never starts anything, but he will react to a dog that gets in his face with barking or growling, so I have called it "reactive". Is that correct?

Crio, what do you call your method of dog training? Do you work with all breeds?
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:59 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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thats why we keep recommending several books to you. Its very long and detailed to type out everything, and the books will cover the basics that would take forever to cover in a venue like this...you may want to dig through the training forum and read read read.

desensitization is well, making the dog less sensitive to a trigger by exposing it to him at low levels, over and over until he gets used to it

counterconditioning is about changing a dogs association or emotion to a trigger...dog hates A, so you associate A with som'thing the dog really likes...so the dog then learns that A is a predictor of good things.

Proofing is about adding distractions and new criteria. Dogs do not generalize, so they literally don't understand that "sit" in a blank room means the same as "sit" outside when a dog is running by. Dogs don't "know" a behavior until you practice it in many many many places with many criteria.


as far as your dog being "reactive" in the traditional way the word is used. No i don't get the impression your dog is reactive, judging by your previous thread and som' of the things you said in this one.

Quote:
My dog never starts anything, but he will react to a dog that gets in his face with barking or growling,
this ^^ sounds like a normal dog to me reacting appropriately to a rude dog in his face being rude. If your dog was reactive the dog wouldn't be able to get close enough to get in his face. If that makes sense.


I appologize if I speak in too many scientific terms, I find that when I don't people think Iam dumbing it down to much, and when I do people don't understand. Its hard to find a middle ground between the two. Iam not trying to be patronizing, its just how I communicate. when you mentioned reading the service dog book, I figured you had run across the terminology before. My mistake

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Crio, what do you call your method of dog training? Do you work with all breeds?
I utilize learning theory (how animals learn) primarily with marker training (clicker training) basically dogs respond and perform because they want to, not because they "have" to. Which maximizes trust/bond. I own dogs of a wide variety of breeds with a wide variety of issues, if you are looking for a proffessional reference I do not do this as a living, as i prefer a steady paycheck

Last edited by Criosphynx; 03-07-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:12 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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I think I''m starting to get confused about what advice you're looking for exactly, corky.

So far we've given you the following advice:

- Do short training sessions... two hours of umbilical training around the house is too long.

- Umbilical training works for service dogs because they have been selected for people-orientation; it may stress out pet dogs.

- Using food in training helps you and your dog bond.

- If you're shouting, jerking his collar, or stomping on the ground to get your dog's attention, he's either overstimulated by the environment or does not know what you're asking him to do; continuing to use these crutches will train your dog that he doesn't have to listen until you "really mean it".

- If he's ignoring you, you can ignore him back and eventually he will be begging for your attention.

- Training at home is good, but you should really find a trainer and take some classes.

- Teaching a dog to be confident in new situations will go a long way to "cure" reactivity.

- Brad Pattinson is known for being abusive, there are much better trainers out there.

- You should read the books "Click to Calm" and/or "Control Unleashed" to learn how to handle reactivity in public; you should also read "When Pigs Fly" to learn how to train even the most independent dog.



Does this about cover it??
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:38 PM
corky corky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
thats why we keep recommending several books to you.
I'm sorry I haven't read all of those books yet. These titles were only recommended to me today and I've got two other dog books on the go right now. Thanks for the definitions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
this ^^ sounds like a normal dog to me reacting appropriately to a rude dog in his face being rude. If your dog was reactive the dog wouldn't be able to get close enough to get in his face. If that makes sense.
Hmm... maybe I am confused then. I understood from the two rescue groups that had Corky over seven months that he was difficult to adopt out because he has "issues" with other dogs. Getting the details on his "issues" has been tricky.

I do know he is a resource guarder because I've seen it. I've also seen him pin my older Kees twice when the Kees growled at him and Corky put him in his place. I do not blame Corky for wanting to discipline a rude dog that rushes up to him, growls at him or barks in his face, however Corky looks like a pit bull and he and I would likely take the blame for any incident. He's obviously a strong and he could really hurt a small dog. Perhaps my goal of having him ignore a bad mannered dog is expecting too much? Its easy for me to work on the relationship between Corky and my Kees, but we run into strange dogs all the time.

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Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
So far we've given you the following advice...Does this about cover it??
It does. You've summarized very well.

Thank you everyone.
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:52 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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here...

watch the first couple videos with jean donaldson...they show reactive dogs

ABRI Videos and Podcasts

Quote:
Perhaps my goal of having him ignore a bad mannered dog is expecting too much?
I think it being a long term goal is ok...but you've had him what? 6 weeks or so right? When I get a problem rescue I don't have any expectations for the first 6 weeks, I don't put pressure on them, I manage them until the stress levels die down..

The shelter here actually tells adopters that their new dog will not be themselves for the first 6 weeks, and then talks about if you think you may want to return them at least wait out that month and a half and then some. Anyway, my very reactive dog is a year into training and I can not have a rude dog in his face yet(on leash, off is ok)...not saying it should take a year or more or less or whatever...but its not som'thing I'd expect out of a new dog so quickly

I have had fighting, guarding, SA, housebreaking problems, destructiveness, etc etc, displayed in new dogs that went away on its own with no training once the dog was settled. They were behaviors brought on by the stress of the new place.

Are you talking about stray dogs rushing up to you? Iam trying to understand why dogs are frequently in his space

I have a pit bull also, who is "cold" and LOVES other dogs. That said, I do everything in my power to keep strange dogs away while on leash. Even if that means a boot to rude ones face. Don't let rude dogs ruin your training

I know you are eager to work with him and "fix" him where others have failed, and that admirable, but slow down and enjoy the ride
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