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  #31  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:07 PM
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adojrts adojrts is offline
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Originally Posted by MotherTrust View Post
Hello everyone!

I am glad you have enjoyed jumping to conclusions about everything!
As i say, this was the first session....i know as much as you do about what is to come next!!!!
I'm not trying to fight anyone and say this method is the one to use....i'm merely trying out something i have not done before....and logging my results on here and other forums! A little help goes a long way.
So you want to see the link? Well no....why should i advertise someone who might be giving false results? I have told him about this and explained that if he can prove that what he does with my dog works, then i will happily let other people know.
Quinn is aggressive when others are in his space. He growls to warn you when you are too close or being too intrusive. Maybe it is me influencing his behaviour? Maybe the guy will find that out for me and let me know? Constructive criticism is great and i appreciate it....what i dislike is how you take something you don't know anything about....and knock it down when for all we know, this could work and help many people.
I will continue to let you know what is happening. As you all say, it takes time for a behaviour to be modified...i don't expect to see anything major immediately....but i will happily give the time to others to let them prove to me that they know what they are doing.
Just give this guy a chance.

MotherTrust.
But that is the point, by being positive and by not being dominant over a dog is NOT a new method. That is why several people including myself have asked very specific questions to try and figure out IF the dog is aggressive and what this *trainers* methods are. And frankly we are still in the dark and yes very leary of this so called *new* method. Maybe it is new to you and very possibly very common to the rest of us. But without further information as to what the method is, we'll remain in the dark.
I am still doubtful that your dog is truely aggressive as well, just becauce a dog is wary and growls doesn't mean it is aggressive on any level. However, such a dog pushed past it's threshold can be forced to make an aggressive move.
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:12 PM
MotherTrust MotherTrust is offline
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Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
But that is the point, by being positive and by not being dominant over a dog is NOT a new method. That is why several people including myself have asked very specific questions to try and figure out IF the dog is aggressive and what this *trainers* methods are. And frankly we are still in the dark and yes very leary of this so called *new* method. Maybe it is new to you and very possibly very common to the rest of us. But without further information as to what the method is, we'll remain in the dark.
I am still doubtful that your dog is truely aggressive as well, just becauce a dog is wary and growls doesn't mean it is aggressive on any level. However, such a dog pushed past it's threshold can be forced to make an aggressive move.
I know as much as you do! I am also awaiting further information about this method....which i hope will be explained in the next session.
Maybe he is a certain aggressive type? Dominant or not? It will be interesting to see what this guy says about it. I will get answers....it's just a matter of time!
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:17 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Using phrases like "being dominant" is generally a red flag to most of us here. That's an outmoded and, frankly, dangerous concept and reeks of Cesar-itis.

Also, you've not described anything that rises to the level of "aggression." Very few dogs are truly aggressive; defensive, yes, but that's entirely different. Treating a dog that is defensive and perhaps fearful as an aggressive animal is ALWAYS a mistake.
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  #34  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MotherTrust View Post
I know as much as you do! I am also awaiting further information about this method....which i hope will be explained in the next session.
Maybe he is a certain aggressive type? Dominant or not? It will be interesting to see what this guy says about it. I will get answers....it's just a matter of time!
I am curious, when you move into his space, look him in the eyes with hard eyes (your eyes) and face him square on, what does he do? Where does he look, move his head away or towards you, does he lick his lips, stiffen his body, raise or lower his head, move away or stand his ground?
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:10 AM
MotherTrust MotherTrust is offline
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Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
I am curious, when you move into his space, look him in the eyes with hard eyes (your eyes) and face him square on, what does he do? Where does he look, move his head away or towards you, does he lick his lips, stiffen his body, raise or lower his head, move away or stand his ground?
When I move into his space, it's fine because i am his owner and he respects me for that and he has no choice but to live with me every day! :P
When others come near, he tends to move away if he can and will start to be aggressive if he feels enclosed. He shows this by growling. I have never let anyone close enough to see what happens next and i don't intend to until we have found a solution for his behaviour.
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2010, 09:49 AM
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He is scared and underconfident! An aggressive animal would NOT back away they would face it head on. Using "dominance" on this animal is a HAZARD. What needs to happen is he needs better socialization and some confidence building excersises. IMO.
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotherTrust View Post
When I move into his space, it's fine because i am his owner and he respects me for that and he has no choice but to live with me every day! :P
When others come near, he tends to move away if he can and will start to be aggressive if he feels enclosed. He shows this by growling. I have never let anyone close enough to see what happens next and i don't intend to until we have found a solution for his behaviour.
Thank you for answering, now the great news, this is NOT an aggressive dog. He is non-confident, shy and with the possiblity of progressing to fear aggression if pushed past he comfort zone.
Growling is NOT aggression, dogs that are aggressive that are going to attack/bite tend to make no sounds at all. Your dog is trying to communicate with you that he is uncomfortable and he would like some space. Easy, easy to train with the right knowledge to turn these dogs around and have them happy to meet strangers etc.
Being dominant often makes these dogs worse as they feel threatened and feel like they HAVE to defend themselves, but they don't want to.
Positive reinforcement training and working within their comfort zones is the key to such dogs.
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
Thank you for answering, now the great news, this is NOT an aggressive dog. He is non-confident, shy and with the possiblity of progressing to fear aggression if pushed past he comfort zone.
Growling is NOT aggression, dogs that are aggressive that are going to attack/bite tend to make no sounds at all. Your dog is trying to communicate with you that he is uncomfortable and he would like some space. Easy, easy to train with the right knowledge to turn these dogs around and have them happy to meet strangers etc.
Being dominant often makes these dogs worse as they feel threatened and feel like they HAVE to defend themselves, but they don't want to.
Positive reinforcement training and working within their comfort zones is the key to such dogs.

I have to agree.

You can take a "dominate" role with an aggressive dog, but it is dangerous and you MUST know what you are doing. But taking an overly "dominate" role with a fearful under socailized dog is only going to increase your chances of creating an aggressive dog.

There is a differance in the "dominate" term and being a dogs master/leader. Natural masters/leaders do not have to constantly tell other dogs, "I'm in charge, listen to me, follow me." Such behavior is not needed as the stability and self-control of the master/leader is what the dog will follow and draw comfort and stability from. A master/leader who is always reminding the dog whos in charge, is unpredictable, unstable, and can casue fear/unstability in the dog.

I hope your trainer is someone who understands this and can show you the correct way to help your dog be the best he can be.
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:11 PM
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I totally and absolutely agree with Darkchild, Adojrts and Tsume'smom.

Great posts.... I have nothing to add.
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I am wondering what this guy does for the dog out in public? Do you go into this 'zen' state in public? I guess I can't see that working))

I agree, sounds like he has no confidence/fearful vs being truly aggressive..
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