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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 12:04 PM
PoodleMommy PoodleMommy is offline
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sorry double post, no idea how that happened!
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:06 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Originally Posted by PoodleMommy View Post
Ummm...no. I just picked her up or him up (whoever I could grab first really) and stuck them in a different room... they rotate between rooms all the time anyway so i dont think they view any specific room as a punishment or not and then whatever was the cause of concern was put away and neither of them were allowed to have it.
I think ado makes a good point. Even though the dogs don't view the room itself as punishing, any time they are forced to go somewhere they don't particularly care to go, it is aversive....

But the real test is not what we SPECULATE might be aversive or not, but how the dogs react in those situations. So, when you take the dog to another room, is he excited to go in, does he go in willingly but grumpily, or does he balk at going in altogether? When you go to let him out of the room, does he run out as fast as he can, come out moderately happily, or stay in the room comfortably for a long time afterwards? Your answers to these two questions will determine whether going in the room was aversive or not, and it if was aversive, it could be contributing to the problem.

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Personally unless she was making him bleed and it was a bad fight I would allow them to sort it out and not interfere.
I also agree with this.... after the vet check just to make sure.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:08 PM
PoodleMommy PoodleMommy is offline
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but Lizzy how do you know when it has gone too far and you need to step in?

neither has ever drawn blood, made a scratch anything but it SOUNDS terrible.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 09:10 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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but Lizzy how do you know when it has gone too far and you need to step in?

neither has ever drawn blood, made a scratch anything but it SOUNDS terrible.
Serious fights are usually silent. If they're making a lot of noise it's probably for show.

As Ado and I both mentioned (or, she mentioned and I agreed with), unless the dogs are drawing blood it's probably not a serious fight. A very good trainer I knew told me that her mantra is dog fights are rarely fatal. They look and sound scary to us, but to the dogs they're just show. My friend has dogs that play VERY roughly and it looks like fighting - lots of mouthing in particular - but afterwards neither dog even has saliva on them.... the dogs are not actually even touching each other, it's just that they move so quickly and have reactions that are so much faster than ours, that it looks serious when they're not even touching.

That said, I would suggest putting all the "resources" - food, food bowls, toys, etc. - away for now to prevent nasty behaviors around them. Then if the dogs "fight," they need to learn how to communicate to each other when it's gone too far, which means that you will need to step out of the way and let them work it out on their own.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2010, 09:32 PM
PoodleMommy PoodleMommy is offline
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Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
Serious fights are usually silent. If they're making a lot of noise it's probably for show.

As Ado and I both mentioned (or, she mentioned and I agreed with), unless the dogs are drawing blood it's probably not a serious fight. A very good trainer I knew told me that her mantra is dog fights are rarely fatal. They look and sound scary to us, but to the dogs they're just show. My friend has dogs that play VERY roughly and it looks like fighting - lots of mouthing in particular - but afterwards neither dog even has saliva on them.... the dogs are not actually even touching each other, it's just that they move so quickly and have reactions that are so much faster than ours, that it looks serious when they're not even touching.

That said, I would suggest putting all the "resources" - food, food bowls, toys, etc. - away for now to prevent nasty behaviors around them. Then if the dogs "fight," they need to learn how to communicate to each other when it's gone too far, which means that you will need to step out of the way and let them work it out on their own.
all toys and chews have been away, the only thing they get right now is food and they get it in separate places.

should I have my cardiologist on hand when I let them fight it out (kidding, sort of, )
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2010, 01:47 AM
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Ozzy is very dog aggressive on leash, and mildly has an alpha wannabe personality anyway. He has started a few fights even off leash when we introduce him to a new dog. Over time, I've seen and learned it's just best to let him and the other dog duke it out. They reach an understanding or a draw, shake it off and go about their way. If I interrupt them Oz will just start it all over again.

I WILL stop it if they draw blood, or if the other dog is "more boss" than Ozzy is, and Oz lays down and then tries to start it again when the other dog moves off. I've noticed that during all of these "battles" neither dog has ever drawn blood. They're making a hell of a racket, but they aren't hurting each other.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2010, 07:14 AM
Brattina88 Brattina88 is offline
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I totally agree about the vet checks. Since Armani is the one beig attacked, I'd be worried and get him checked as well! I've heard several owners tell me that their dog will fight a weaker dog, or there dogs started getting into fights and she took them to the vet and it turned out one of them had cancer (Im sorry I am NOT trying to freak you out or anything!)
is it possible there is a hidden bone or toy in the room? Maybe shoved under the couch or something? Trying to think of other possbilities...

The females can hold Really Good Grudges that's why the B* term applies them them and humans LOL

I secondthe walk idea... Sometimes it helps.

I'm one of those that Do Not tolerate fighting At All, so I'm no help there (with letting them sort it out)


If all else fails, try some click to calm excersizes ?
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2010, 08:38 AM
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Lizmo Lizmo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
Personally unless she was making him bleed and it was a bad fight I would allow them to sort it out and not interfer. The other thing I would do is that I remove what the dogs were snarking over, it belongs to ME and they blew it, but I wouldn't remove a dog.
I definitely agree with this. In my experience with pack order, it's not something you personally should try to change, unless physical harm is coming to one dog. Then definitely step in. Otherwise I leave it up to the dogs. If a dog wants to be the 'alpha' dog and if the other dog is fine, why try to change it to fit what you would like? If Armani is fine with being in the lower position, I see no reason to worry about it. What is Armani doing when Chloe growls at him?

I don't tolerate fighting in my house, either. Unless there IS an issue. Fighting over silly stuff like who's going out the door isn't ok here. Fighting over food bowls isn't ok when everyone has there own bowl set before them. If one dog is chewing a bone and another dog gets up in that dog's face, then I will allow a growl. There's no reason why the dog should have to put up with a dog in it's face while peacefully chewing a bone (we have one dog here who will get. up. in. your. face. while another dog is chewing a bone, lol).

It's okay for dogs to get into tuffs about pack order. It's natural for them. It's scary for us when it happens for the first time, but most dogs aren't going to go further than necessasy in order to get the message across, in my experience. And if they do, it's okay to break them up.

Hope that made some sense, lol.
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  #19  
Old 02-27-2010, 09:05 AM
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I WOULD NOT let them fight it out while Chloe's still recovering!! After she heals up it's another story.
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2010, 03:00 PM
PoodleMommy PoodleMommy is offline
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This is very odd... but I came to my parents today and they are totally fine.

Maybe they hate my place and want to go live with the grandparents

I was kind of worried about coming because I didnt want the poodles to get caught up in this mess especially since Elle is slightly reactive sometimes but everyone has been playing, there are toys all over here and everything is just fine.
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