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  #11  
Old 02-18-2010, 02:44 PM
Blue one of Six Blue one of Six is offline
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To ihartgonzo

The internet if full articles with advise on aggression and dominance, that’s were I read it. I must have printed 15 articles all of which give detailed descriptions of the actions of Blue as dominance.

Blue is not the only dog out side. We have 4 dogs outside, Lucky a female mix about 1 ½ years old who we think is a Geckoes (Greek Breed) and who although spade mothered all three of the other dogs outside. Then came Boots a Doberman / Rottweiler mix female about 13 months old, then Blue, now 12 months old and Tux a black Irish Setter found with broken hip at about 3 months old (now 13 months old) and we nursed him back to health and he is accepted in the pack reasonably well. We also have two Schnauzers inside our home, brother and sister 8 years old. And incase you did not understand we live in a rural area of Greece with a large property so they have lots of places to run and play. All except Tux were found left abandoned at a local beach. Just because they are outside does not mean that they get no attention. My wife and I take specific time several times daily to be with them

Let talk “pack leader” I am not the pack leader I am their master. This is well proven as although Boots my Doberman Rottweiler mix won’t eat until Blue has his food at least started, and generally lets Blue rule the property, other than her bone. That’s where she draws the line and all other run from her as she is tough. Also Tux is very submissive to Blue. Lucky

As for training and Blue’s actions at the gate, I originally sprayed him with water. Then I started to walk him on a leash up and tell him no and then tie him for a while. I work with him daily on sit, down, come, stay and other commands. Perhaps this is starting to work as today for the first time when I was far away on the other side of the property I heard him barking at the gate. He came to my call, but following Tux who always comes for attention.

When I signed up on Dogs & Dog Pictures - Dog Forum - Puppy Pictures - Chazhound Dog Site I was hoping for some positive advice on what or how to handle Blue’s actions. Perhaps I’ve found the way with my working with him


To Doberlov

Sorry I did not see your post the last time I looked. I’m also not a master at these forums! Don’t do this regularly. Also we are on much different time zones I’m sure as I am in Greece

Although I understand your position regarding pack animals it seems to me that Blue is the leader of the pack here. With the dogs that taunt him outside our gate, the leader is Kirky, the largest, the toughest. That said what I am looking for is a response with some direction as you have provided. I will check out and find Click to Calm.

In the mean time as I said in a response to ihartgonzo I will continue working with Blue

“daily on sit, down, come, stay and other commands. Perhaps this is starting to work as today for the first time when I was far away on the other side of the property I heard him barking at the gate. He came to my call, but following Tux who always comes for attention”

.
Thanks
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2010, 10:33 AM
marfak9 marfak9 is offline
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Hope I'm not too late to the party. Here's a link to a recent article about dominance published in the Journal of Veterinary Behavior:
http://www.pawsoflife.org/pdf/Librar...haw%202009.pdf
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2010, 10:37 AM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Thank you for that article!

To the OP. It is YOUR impression the dog is 'leader of the pack" But its not the dog's impression.

Dogs are not pack animals. (as been observed and discussed and published by many a scientist who has no interest in training animals or gaining fame in the dog community) They do not work that way.

If you insist on anthropomorphizing this situation you are only going to make resolving it more difficult if not impossible.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:31 AM
Blue one of Six Blue one of Six is offline
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Thanks for the article. It describes "Blue" actions in many ways. Related to dominance I see that many here do not like that term as well as "pack" Well you can call it a form of social interaction between dogs or you can call it "dog family" I guess I'm old school in my terms
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:04 PM
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Tsume'sMom Tsume'sMom is offline
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I knew a family with two dogs. As the dogs grew up one became increasingly "dominate" and possessive. The "trainers" advice was to let the dogs sort out who is the "dominate" dog. So they did, and applied the eat first more affection etc. This seemed to work until the dog started "dominateing" the family, growling mounting etc.. Because the behavior was allowed it escalated. The end result was the "dominate" dog had bit every family member and shreded one family members arm. The other dog had been attacked multipule times to the point of needing vet care on at least three occasions.

My point is that training is a must, and allowing the dogs to sort it out on their own can lead to VERY bad things. I would reccomend to you Ian Dunbars DVDs on fighting and aggression, Patricia McConnels How to be a Pack Leader and Feeling out numbered, and I would also reccomend firm but fair basic training be instilled in each of your six dogs.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Blue one of Six Blue one of Six is offline
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Thank you for your recommendations and I will look into them. I have been working with Blue on training and by also giving him more play and attention. It seems to be working in that he is more responsive to commands, less aggressive, more playful with the other dogs, accepting commands to come away from the distractions at the property gate and displays generally more acceptable actions. Hoping that the work with him will continue his progress. Thanks
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Blue one of Six Blue one of Six is offline
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Default Click to Calm

As an update I did get a copy of Click to calm but it did not address the issue of calming one dog while being challenged by another dog. So I wrote to Karen Pryor to get a response that I should be caution as it is unnatural to change the dogs approach under these circumstances
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2010, 01:26 PM
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TheGoldenRetriever TheGoldenRetriever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue one of Six View Post
The internet if full articles with advise on aggression and dominance, that’s were I read it. I must have printed 15 articles all of which give detailed descriptions of the actions of Blue as dominance.
OK, but did you know that "dominance" theory is more than two decades old and has been largely debunked?

You like internet articles ... here's a few that are far more recent than the at least 20 yr. old "dominance" theory. The following four are what I could find in literally less than 30 seconds. There are many, many more.

Debunking the Dominance Myth - Dog Public

VIN News (<--this one is from a veterinary dog behaviorist site, and is circa 2009)

What&prime;s wrong with using &lsquo;dominance&rs to explain the behaviour of dogs?

http://www.4pawsu.com/dominancemyth.pdf
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  #19  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:17 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue one of Six View Post
As an update I did get a copy of Click to calm but it did not address the issue of calming one dog while being challenged by another dog.
What? It doesn't talk about what to do when your dog is barking at another dog behind a fence?? Maybe I misunderstood, but this is what I thought the main problem was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue one of Six View Post
The big problem is that another neighbor has 4 dogs, one a male (Kirky) a little older than Blue and of the exact same breed background. This neighbor is not here regularly so they are loose in the area and other neighbors feed them. They are good to have outside the gate as security and are all friendly to people and dogs other than Kirky and Blue who always try to fight through the gate.
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2010, 12:23 AM
Blue one of Six Blue one of Six is offline
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Default Specifics of the problem

Our dogs are fenced and will not go out. But 4 other dogs not restrained within their property are frequently at our gate as another neighbor across from us feeds them when their owner is gone which is frequent. Blue, protecting our property gets upset, starts barking which now challenges one of the outside dogs. And we frequently have through the fence fights. I have been working with Blue on having him come for a treat, and attention when this barking and challenge starts and it is starting to work. But of course during the time Blue and Kirky (the dog outside) are challenging each other intervention is not something that can be done. In addition, the 4 dogs outside our gate have little training or someone that will do that as they are more like adopted neighborhood strays, let to run when the owner is gone for a week at a time.

So trying to work the two dog together to overcome aggression is not possible as nobody works with them.
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