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  #11  
Old 09-18-2005, 08:50 PM
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I really would not take a pup from from a BYB who really doesn't seem to care how or when they breed. Yes, I feel sorry for such pups, but there are times when you have to decide. A responsible dog owner pays out over the years as much for these poor babies as they do for a well bred dog... by that I mean from people who care, rescue, or HS were you know at that age what you get. ANY pup if not well brought up for 8 to 9 weeks need a lot of TLC and socializing . God bless these poor pups... we can't save them all.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2005, 05:09 AM
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Ok, I find that last post a little unfair.

This person who has bred these puppies is NOT an irresponsible dog owner AT ALL!

I know the person personally, she is not some random popping out puppies for some sick twisted personal gain, or just letting her bitch run riot and getting knocked up ever few months!

The fact is her dogs are the most loved spoilt dogs I currently know who does anything and everything for them pooches. And yes, she has has pups, no crime there. She will find fantastic homes for them, and they will undoubtedly go in the local area to people she knows and will probably end up catching up with most of the time.

That post has caught a nerve with me, yes. I was asking advice about me, not her breeding methods! The fact is if you wanted to know HOW the pups came to be, you could have asked. To say she is a BYB (I can only assume you mean backyard breeder) is nothing but ignorant on your part to not have the foresight to ask about the circumstances, who the person who had the pups is, the condition of her own dogs (the list could go on).

No offence meant, but I feel that is a little snobbery on your part which was not necessary. I am no fool, and to suggest I would even consider endorsing a cruel act as you mentioned is slightly insulting.

Sorry to go on, no offence meant.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2005, 05:28 AM
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Dizzy- Grammy(bubbatd) has bred goldens for years. She knows what she's talking about. BYB is people that breed mixed breeds also nkown as mutts to each other. Just for the sake of pretty pups or money. PROPER breeders get the hips and elbows checked, temp tested and the list goes on and on. They only breed because they think they can improve the breed.
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2005, 05:48 AM
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I understand what she is saying. But to assume she is doing it for cute pups and/or money is totally out of order.

No, these pups are not pedigree. But to suggest they were bred irresponsibly for personal gain is a little insulting to me, and I never even bred them.

I don't ever believe mentioning any circumstances of how these pups came about, so the above comments were based on assumption, which is what rattled me. Without the correct facts in place, breeding dogs for X years is no basis to assume some awful practices and, abused dogs (i say abused as that is what I would associate with a poorly, irresponsibly bred dog). In my opinion, that is called snobbery.

This is not what I was asking advice on, and to be honest, is totally irrelevant to this thread. I agree, irresponsible breeding is generally a bad idea, and totally understand the points being made, but the comments are not necessary here.

I am not setting out to p*ss anyone off, but please in future, if you have any doubts or questions, ask me rather than assume. I'm new on here, and don't want to set off on the wrong foot. The opinions of other have been very helpful and I would like to use this site as a good resource.
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  #15  
Old 09-19-2005, 09:53 AM
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The problem is that most of us here are against people purposely breeding mutts, because so many are dying in the shelters. Even if they are spoiled and she takes really good care of them... there are just too many dogs out there already.

Do you know the website petfinder.com? Have you browsed it lately? Most of those dogs are there because someone decided to breed mutts because it would be a great experience, puppies are cute, etc etc. Lots of them were probably sure they would give them a good home too... but unfortunately it's often not the case.

The other concern is that if the parents have a genetic disease, the puppies WILL get it too, and it might not appear before the dogs are 5 years old or more... the only way to make sure the pups won't carry the disease is to do a series of testing on the parents to make sure they don't any problem. The cute pups she just got might end up not being to walk anymore and needing a $10.000 operation to fix their hips.

So, that's what we call backyard breeders. People who don't make sure they are breeding healthy pups, not mutts, and don't breed to improve the breed. The only true reason to breed now is to improve the breed, because just too many dogs are being euthanized in shelters everyday

Out of curiosity, what is your friend's reason to breed? I don't think Bubbatd assumed anything... I think she was right on all counts, you're just not informed on what a BYB is.

So anyway, I'm not going to debate here longer, but if you can take a few minutes to read what I'm posting below, you will understand a bit better. Please don't take it personally... We've all been in your shoes before.

www.petfinder.com
Someone's experience breeding pups
What responsible breeders do
What is a backyard breeder?
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  #16  
Old 09-19-2005, 10:32 AM
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I am not taking it personally, I am open to others opinions. I am just protecting the reputation of a good friend. I don't think you have noticed that I agree with what you say, mostly.

I am not unaware of what goes on with breeders. And I whole heartedly agree on responsible dog ownership, at all levels.

I have a few questions. I do not want a pedigree dog. I am not interested in buying a pedigree dog and in fact, feel most pedigrees have these genetic traits as they are poorly bred, and due to their 'pedigree'.

Breeding to better the breed is all good and well, but when you start with a small gene pool to begin with, the only way to rid the 'bad' genes is to enter a new line. As most pedigrees started of with a handful of dogs at some point, the gene pool will always be limited (unless we start from scratch to develop them again).

I find X-bred dogs healthier, prettier and generally what I prefer!

These puppies are here, too late for that (although, I feel that is no problem), am I to just slap this womens wrists and say she should find someone else to take them?? Say, these pups are no good because they have not been bred to better a breed??

There are hundreds of dogs in homes, I agree. But the fact is these dogs are here and looking now. They have 100% healthy relatives (of ALL ages), I know the owner personally, any problems (highly unlikely) and she is there.

As for this

"Backyard breeders-probably love the dogs but again it is all about the money. They usually show abit more concern about what they are breeding, often no health checks are done on the parents and usually no guarantees are given or rediculous guarantees. They often breed mutts but not always. They often are more interested in lining their pockets than the dogs. No contracts, no questionnaires, no follow ups..."

she is not asking for a penny. If I thought this was the case, do you still think I would defend the situation??

Does that make the situation more clear?

This has gone totally off topic now!
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2005, 12:23 PM
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lol i'm sorry but I have a question now from reading it all..
  • Do you know why(if not by accident) she bred her bitch again?

Anyways, back to the topic,

I'm a fully time college student, not to mention I work part time with Parking Enforcement down here and I have an 11 week old Belgian Tervuren puppy. I purchased him while I was still working full time, BUT, there was also someone always home for him and he had two Sheltie pups to play with during the day while I wasn't there.

People with full time jobs most certainly can have a dog. BUT.. i have a suggestion. Try and get the puppy on a Friday, so you have the whole weekend to spend with it, because those first few days will be very scary for the new puppy. Definately keep it in a crate during the night time though, dont let it have free range of a room for training purposes. It will learn that its crate is its safe haven and will go in it to relax etc on its own. Try and maybe keep a clock that ticks beside its bed and wrap a warm hot water bottle in towels and put it in the crate for night time.

Keep lots of toys and such around for the puppy, teach it how to play with them. Do NOT give it rawhide at anytime though. Rawhide is indigestible! Steralized bones are good, you can get them at the petstore, only buy the ones that are packaged though. the ones sitting on the shelf aren't always 100% safe. you never know how long they were sitting on the shelf for!(I used to work at a big pet store down here).

Hmm.. other puppy advice.. defiantely puppy proof the room or rooms it will be staying in! lol When we first got our Sheltie pups, they were only allowed in the hallway and the kitchen because they were basically the only attaching rooms that weren't carpeted. So we put up grates and such in doorways. Their bed was put in the room and whenever we had to leave the house, they were crated until they learned to wait for us to come home to go "outside".
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2005, 02:18 PM
Fran27 Fran27 is offline
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The opinion you have about pedigree dogs is not totally accurate. The reason lots of poorly bred is actually because of backyard breeders, who just take a bitch and a male and mate them. Responsible breeders look for healthy dogs with good temparements, and look for mates in other lines that will make up for their line's defaults etc... and you're much less likely to get a dog with problems if you get them from a responsible breeder.

About those pups, personally I don't think that it's a problem if you get one of them, just keep in mind that they might develop health problems later on... You just CAN'T know unless the parents have had hip, eyes etc tested.

The only thing I am wondering is, doesn't it bother you to have a friend breeding mutts when so many are dying in shelters? And doesn't your friend bother either?

Backyard breeders are not only in for the money... They can use any excuse they want (raise happy puppies, make money, show their children the miracle of birth etc), they are just adding to the surpopulation when they are not working to improve the breed. Even if their intentions are good, as I'm sure your friend's are, they are just adding to the problem. Instead of breeding her own, why not foster a pregnant female and raise the puppies until they find a good home?
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2005, 07:35 PM
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Dizzy, I'm sorry if I offended you and no, I am very far from being a snob !! You asked if you should take one of these pups. At this point, if you can do everything for it that it will need....go for it !!! I think things may be different here than where you are. Help your friend with the pups and make sure they are well socialized. At your age, how do your parents feel about it ?? Remember, you will be home only a few more years before you're off to school , then what ?? This puppy may live until you're 30 years old. Good luck, whatever you decide !

Last edited by bubbatd; 09-19-2005 at 07:40 PM. Reason: addition
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2005, 04:32 AM
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Firstly, breeders trying to improve the breeds and do all the tests and dont breed for money arent snobs. Pedigree dogs arent snobs. If you like mutts and think they are healthier, pure dogs who have been bred properly should not have these traits. With mutts you dont know what is in their lines. A bit of this and that here and there. It all adds up.

Anyway, secondly. These pups are here so we cant do anything about that. Personally, in your circimstance(sp?), i would go to the shelter and get a older dog. One thats maybe 2 years old or so. You have to spend tonnes of time with a pup. You cant just leave then at home all day while your at work and expect them to grow up to be great dogs. They need to be around you in these stages.

Thirdly, im sorry if i offended you in anyway.
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