Politics, us heallthcare, and voting against things that are actually good for you.

[Dizzy]

Read this, and thought it was interesting enough to share! Its not just the healthcare debate, it is directed at us politics as a whole, I think.

BBC News - Why do people often vote against their own interests?

[GipsyQueen]

Very interesting!! We've been having a lot of debates about American politics lately in my poltical science class, esp. now that Mass. has voted a republican into the senate. Many, actually most people here can't understand WHY America is so against a proper healthcare system. (Most just come to the conclusion that American's are just way to proud, and do not want to be "robbed" of their freedom. ) To be honest though, I don't understand either.

[Dekka]

It makes no sense to me either, its one of the few things the US shares with most 3rd world countries (I think the US is the ONLY first world nation with out some kind of universal health care). BUT its one of those cases where its not up to other nations to understand, but accept. When voters want to look at facts they will, look at how hard people push to have intelligent design taught. Good way to hamper the nation's production of biologists! (seriously anyone who takes any biology at the university level pretty much sees how the idea of debating the idea of evolution makes no sense.. though believing in God and believing in evolution are not contrary things)


Good article though.

[-bogart-]

I have sat and reworded this 5 times and keep deleting , so I will leave it at this.


please do not bash our political system.

I dont not bash ya'll's and am getting upset that it is always how "dumb" us americans are for not wanting to do things your way.



okay i am leaving know and wont be back to this thread.

[Dekka]

I have to say I don't think its bashing.

And to be honest the rest of the world DOES have an interest in US politics.. no country lives in a vacuum.

[Puckstop31]

First, what a blind piece of tripe that article is. It makes so many false assumptions and quotes "studies". I'd LOVE to see their source material for that.


That said... Gypsy, America HAS a proper medical care system. Access to that system is the problem, or rather paying for access to the system. Nobody dies in the street here. Thankfully, the American people have started to wake up. Thankfully, the American people are starting to see that if the government gets its hands on total distribution of healthcare, it will fail to be a good system any more. Things need to change, for sure, but making it "universal" is not what we want. Finally, YES, Americans are jealous of our liberty... What little we truly have left. Its not pride that is keeping us from a governemtn controleld "universal" system... Its common sense and a better understanding of history.


And speaking of pride.... Dekka, you are such a arrogant brat sometimes. Do you really think that all it will take is for we ignorant Americans to look at the "facts", for us to come around? Do you REALLY think we are all just a bunch of moronic rubes because we don't see things the way you see them? The way you are TAUGHT them? Pride indeed.

(seriously anyone who takes any biology at the university level pretty much sees how the idea of debating the idea of evolution makes no sense..

Its overeducated and under wise statements like this... Never forget that Education and Wisdom are VASTLY different things.


Put the biology book down and pick up a HONEST history text. Look at Rome in 51 BC. Look what happned shortly after. Then compare.


I didn't need to say much else other than the first 3 sentences. But yet I wonder... If the US is such a awful place, why are we one of the most powerful nations on Earth? Why do nations run here first when thigns go bad? If the concept of individual LIBERTY trumping anything else is wrong, why did it work SO well?


The question is often asked... "Who would want to live in the US medical system?" The answer from non-US citizens is almost universally NO. But I tell ya what, after what I have seen of the Canadian system... NO THANKS. Because frankly, had Hannah been born in Canada, she would probably be dead. She would not have been allowed the extra day she needed to be diagnosed.

Nuff Said.

[Dekka]

I can't say I see the relevance to roman history (which I love) to molecular biology...

But to day your child wouldn't be allowed to stay an extra day here shows you are as ignorant of how things often go here has you claim everyone is in the US.

There are 'examples' of horror stories both ways you know (like US health insurance companies refusing to pay for treatments and families loosing homes over it for example. I know its not the 'norm'). I know they didn't 'kick me out' after I had Darien. LOL I had to convince them I really was ok to go home!

[vanillasugar]

Originally Posted by Puckstop31

Nobody dies in the street here.

I don't often get involved in these threads, but this statement is just so mind boggling that I couldn't just let it go.

Honestly? Do you believe that? Because if you do I think you might want to re-examine who you're throwing the word arrogant at.



And moving along. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding between Canadians and Americans specifically regarding our respective health care systems. I've seen and read many times things that you (in a general sense, including MANY Americans) honestly believe are true about the Canadian health care system that couldn't be more outrageous or further from fact, and I'm sure that in some cases it goes both ways. A bit of open mindedness never hurt anyone.

[drmom777]

Dekka, the health care treatments insurance companies refuse to pay for are things like bone marrow transplants for breast cancer. Is this an available therapy in Ontario? They WILL routinely pay for bone marrow translants for other cancers, like acute leukemias.

I know that people from Canada who have babies with complicated heart anomalies often bring them to the US for repairs, mortgaging their homes, etc. I had always assumed this was because they couldn't get them repaired in a timely manner in Canada.

I don't have a ton of statistics, but my feeling is that our health care system is the best at complicated, expensive or high tech procedures, but others are way better at providing routine and preventative care for the masses. Both are important, and we have yet to see a proposal that preserves the first while providing the second.

The people that die on the street here, in my experience, are people who are very resistant to healthcare in general. They are usually the alcoholics, drug addicts, and mentally ill who are homeless in spite of all efforts to get them into shelters and support systems.

[Dekka]

This is why I said it 'wasn't the norm' but its the stories that get to the media..

Yes there are a small minority of ppl who leave the country for medical care. (want a specific specialist have lots of money and want it NOW) But there are also Americans who move to Canada to get our health care too. It goes both ways.

Yes those are available here (how could they not be? O.o)

I do remember finding some numbers (in some study) about the costs of medical proceedures in the US vs other countries. The US chargers more (to whom ever is paying) than most countries per medical procedure. Which is likely why you are good at procedures needing fancy exp equimpent, cause they can afford all the toys.

Yes things here aren't perfect. There is no 'perfect' But I do live here, my family lives here, my friends live here.. and I can say I have never had a problem myself getting care, or Darien getting care. My friends and family (and I have a pretty large family) haven't had problems getting care.

Not sayign it doesn't happen. But it doesn't happen with the frequency that some people like to throw around.